Those specs are correct and no the twin pot calipers of a turbo mr2 is not an upgrade. Stock Celica gt bias is 71% front given it is fwd. With the mr2 calipers as an "upgrade" bias ends up being 65% to the front. You will gain loOks but lose performance.

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hmm so how about the SS-II and SS-III celica equipped with superstrut and twin piston calipers is that a downgrade as well??

As I pointed out, the pistons cover the same area, but you should get even distribution of pressure across the pads with the 2 pots.

can't you change the bias by getting the splitter or whatever you call it, off an mr2? I mean you need it for the ST to GT upgrade, so would GT to MR2 work?

U mean the proportioning valve? Ur saying get one off the mr2? No way Jose the mr2 is mid engine rwd. If ur gonna upgrade for performance do it the right way. As for looks it's ur car do what satisfies u.

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Wrong, you dont have to change that.

And honestly i dont think (if you have the same tires and suspension front and rear) having 60% to the front is a bad thing, i mean it helps take away 1 of the many things the front wheels are intended to do on fwd cars.

Well i cant say we did not try, you guys notice how the Title does not read "upgrade" anymore. Ill keep looking...

Wonder what the bias is with the GT4 calipers

Or the Lexus LS400 bias I bought some awhile back from Malpaso, haven't played with them at all other than cleaning em up. Waiting to put my bigger wheels on. They are 4 pot calipers, I'll try and measure the pistons asap. Another possible alternative?

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not nessesaraly, the " theorical " magic number for brake bias is 60 / 40 ( front / rear ) but that will vary from setup to setup, and the importance of modifying your Bias is to use the most grip available while keeping the front locking first than the rear, so if you think about it, as long as his front is still locking the tires before the rear, it is an upgrade, a good one actually, because it will spread the braking force better among all 4 tires, so all 4 tires will work more efficiently at stoping the car instead of the front ones doing most of the job with a 70+ % of the braking force on the front.

One of my friends tracks his car every season and his brake bias is 58% front 42% rear with an adjustable proportioning valve, he got to those numbers after a lot of trial an error testing. so Norberto, find a safe area where you can test your brakes, have someone look at your tires ( or video ) and make sure your front tires lock before your rear one, if they do, I'll be the first one to call this a great upgrade, best bang for your buck brake upgrade.

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oooo that sounds like rubber fun!

try this with a old set of tires, you don't want flat spots on your good tires lol

I guess Driver preference???

of course, a car should be setup to the driver's taste, but my point is that, This " upgrade " should be called an upgrade. in a perfect world you would want all 4 tires locking at the same time as this would make all the tires work just as hard stopping the car, but in the real world the front needs to be locked just slightly before the rears, so depending on the weight transfer due to suspension and engine position and of course drivers taste we should modify the bias to make the best out of the setup,. if you look at most adjustable proportioning valve setups they are use to lower the bais on the front not to increase it, as manufacturers go for a very safe number making sure the front will locked up before the rear even when we are using crappy tires on the front. so for race / track where tires will be properly maintained they aim to bring the bias closer between front and rear while still keeping the front locking first.

let me hear what you think, as this is not what " I know ", is just what I've understood from some reading I've done and I can be very well misinformed or have misunderstood the data, so some of you should support / contradict what I'm saying so we can all move in the right direction.

I totally agree with you Stevenson I guess the brake bias with the Mr2 calipers would make it an ideal upgrade but just look at the surface area of the pistons. How much smaller is the Mr2 pad compared. To the stock celicas?

Just out of curiosity where would you get a brake proportioning valve that you can actually adjust?

Some reading on how to installl them and their use


anywhere, eBay, Amazon, etc

Check here !

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Feb 4, 2011 - 10:26 AM

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Nice find....I feel like doing some double flares now.
One thing needs to be said though, if you guys feel confident in your mechanical skills, its an easy install. But if you don't, please do not do this on your own. I can just see the replies "I installed this and then my car wouldn't stop".

^id be one of those people

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not by much, but im using celica pads anyhow.

Well in that case it would be too bad of an "upgrade".

I can't wait to make my own thread on my Big brake project with them ls430 monoblocs.

I have to take some time and calculate the ST205 stock Bias, and then install the rear ST205s on my car, depending on how it performs I may need an adjustable proportioning valve, but time will tell.

for now I can say, that this is a great setup for someone who doesn't want to get too complicated and on a budget, it changes your brake bias to improve braking without having to actually play with proportioning valves an such, at a very low cost.

Great Job Norberto !

Someone forgot to mention SS-II non superstrut has the same 2pot as SS-III 2pot, Right Rusty?

Only SS-I has the same 1pot as USDM GT.


Mr2 is a way lighter car than Celica so doesn't need as strong brakes.

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acutally ss-III and g limited both came with 4th gen 3sge and the mr2 actually weighs 1220kg about the same as the celica, if not a little more if I remember correctly

ughh so sad what a 300 pound weight advantage can do

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 15, 2013 - 4:02 PM

Superstrut SS-II and SS-III have Twin Pot front brakes. (And I think the SS-II superstrut brakes were bigger than the SS-III, larger rotor)

SS-II has the Single pot front brakes


But as I pointed out....

The single piston caliper specs (SS-II):
Piston Diameter: 57mm
Piston Count: 1
Total Piston Area: 2551.76mm² (25.5176cm²)

The twin piston caliper specs (SS-III):
Piston Diameter: 40.4mm
Piston Count: 2
Total Piston Area: 2563.79mm² (25.6379cm²)


It's only an increase of 12.03mm² (3.47mm x 3.47mm)

I thought when we compared brakes (when I had SS-III) that you said yours looked identical?

Don't think so, im pretty sure that was you

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Regarding the SS-II having single piston calipers, I have something to add...

My ST202 cut is from a non-superstrut SS-II



Yet it has twin piston calipers:





Here I've used a torch to show the non-superstrut suspension:



And a couple more pics showing the markings:





I'm not a Celica expert, but I'm pretty sure what I have here is a non-superstrut SS-II with twin piston calipers.

Thoughts?

yes!!!! you are a lucky man!!!!

wow interesting. And for the love of god re size your pics its so annoying when members do that!!

Yes you do

From Discussion thread about LSD's in the ST202 SS-2's & SS-3's
-Rusty+

They (ST202 SS-II [BEAMS] & SS-III [BEAMS]) both run "twin pot brakes"... However the part numbers are different, it could mean nothing, or a difference between the two, which is why I didn't add it ....and I sort of forgot
(example : 1998's SS-II & SS-III)


Would be good if you have time to take measurements so we can compare.