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^^^^AMEN!


so... this is a forum...and this forum is to post opinions...saying a thread is usless is like saying someone's opinion dosent matter...not true. lets continue the bitching and whining gentlemen!

no hard feelings to the naysayers...

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Sep 11, 2006 - 10:27 PM

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yes..... becasue thats going to continue for a significant amount of time.... Bring this thread back at this time next year and tell me whats going on. You cant design a brand new car in a couple months.

if people have such a big problem with the high oil prices why not just invest in the oil companies and stop worrying about it

No point in arguing over this. There's simply not enough money nor incentive for Toyota to pursue competing in this market... at least not here in the US. Frankly... I personally could care less either way. So long as the car looks good and drives alright... yay! It doesn't have to have a Toyota badge for it to be a good sports car... so try a different maker if you want that sporty feel eh?

very good points made. maybe we're really in the era of sedans....from Toyota at lease. but we can all agree that it was a hell of a run. and for what it is worth our old celis along with all over performance Toyotas still stand high in the performance scene. Those rumors of the new supra is good news to us all...BUT!!!....at a price. that’s okay. why is it ok? you're asking Michael Jordan to come back out one more time and do that dunk that has been logoed on every last one of his shoes....so you could expect to pay a price for that. Like some one said before in the post.....this makes our celies even THAT much more valuable. Let enjoy them and ride these fkers to the wheels fall off!!! good day people!

Toyota is getting loaded on Prius and Camry cars. They are not even thinking about the MKV Supra anymore. They are making money...instead of catering to sports car fans, they get more revenue selling comfortable grocery getters and fuel-efficient hybrids. They're playing it right. We are just a little portion of Toyota's pie...hell...we're not, because most of us bought our cars used...we didn't even make them money.

This thread does matter, it shows that Toyota does indeed have a dedicated base to the 'last' of the sports cars that they produced.

If you sit here and tell me there isnt traffic on any Celica, MR2, or Supra sites, you'd be a god damned liar. We're all customers, whether or not you believe it. The majority of us are all potential buyers of a new sports car if they were to release one.

The problem is, that they haven't released anything *in comparison* to other car manufacturers. Nissan, Mitsubishi, Subrau, they've all got their powerful little sports cars, while Toyota is stuck with the 2k Celica & MR-S.

Nobody is whining in this thread. I like Toyota, I believe in their craftsmanship & dependability. I want to see more of the same like we had back in the 90's. End of story. I'm not whining, I'm not wishing, I'm simply stating that I'm disappointed that Toyota isn't producing anything worthy of every single one of my paychecks.

I'm a 26 year old guy, and I like speed. I don't like sedan's or SUV's, but I like Toyota. So, what do I do? The tC does not deliver, netiher does anything else that they have in the market. So, this means i'm starting to look to other car manufacturers, potentially losing Toyota a sale on a car that they *SHOULD* be selling.

That's what this thread is all about. We want more, they aren't giving it to us. So, in the future, when we're all ready to get rid of the 6th gen's, we will be looking at other manufacturers for a sports car. That's the reality of it.

This post has been edited by sinner96ST: Sep 12, 2006 - 1:08 PM

They could care less about how many "Toyota fans" frequent online forums. All they care is about the real people going to dealerships and buying their cars, my brother. Words or intentions mean nothing, they want to see something concrete...like $$$.

Well, we're still Toyota drivers whether or not that matters. I think it does.

If we're all fans of Toyota, chances are we'd buy something from them in the future. Surely I still make Toyota money by purchasing genuine parts from them, which I've done plenty of times.

I love the brand, I just don't like where it's going. I do agree with you though, money talks.

seriously good god, how many of you could and would ACTUALLY have the available funds to go out and puchase a new sports car tomorrow if toyota put one out? how bout within 6 months? they arent going to cater to dreamers and an unrealist illusion of what most of us think is a "reasonable" price for the type of vehicle. toyota has no intrest sinking funds into projects that wont net much gain. they will just continue to facelift their current product just like cher and madonna until sales begin to decline then they will start over with new product (IE: celica/mrs to scion products). i love the looks of all the new toyotas out there, i think the camry, solara, corolla, hell even the new avalon look fantastic. its the age of the revamping of the midsized family sedan... they missed the boat on the sports car revolution that is likely to begin fading again. however they along with nissan are ahead of the game on the midsized sedans and it shows, skip one fad to be ahead on the next, and if you are looking at profitability theres a lot more of it available in the midsized sedan segment then there is in sports cars.

yaawn... just bored and taking my swing at it.

for anyone who want to argue: fact (from autonews.com)

Best selling vehicles from 2005:

1. Ford F-Series (includes F-150, F-250 Super Duty and F-350 Super Duty) — 901,463


2. Chevrolet Silverado (includes 1500, 1500 Classic, 1500 SS, 1500 SS Classic, 1500HD, 1500HD Classic, 2500HD, 2500HD Classic, 3500, 3500 Classic) — 705,891


3. Toyota Camry, Camry Hybrid and Camry Solara — 433,703


4. Dodge Ram (includes 1500, 1500 SRT-10, 2500 and 3500) — 400,453


5. Honda Accord — 369,293


6. Honda Civic — 308,415


7. Nissan Altima — 255,371


8. Chevrolet Impala — 246,481


9. Chevrolet Malibu — 245,861


10. Chevrolet TrailBlazer and TrailBlazer EXT — 244,150

to me that kinda looks like: truck, truck, midsize family sedan, truck, midsize family sedan, economy coupe, midsize family sedan, midsize family sedan, midsize family sedan, SUV


also wanted to add i cant really agree with the statement of "where its going"... im pretty sure its already there, the discontinuation of the celica and MRS was kinda the final piece, the rest of the toyota sports cars have been long phased out, even the celica and MRS have been cremepuffs since the alltrac was discontinued in 93 and the mr2turbo was discontinued in 94. its not like this is a recent development.

I read this recently that its all about hybrid now and this may take place of the MR2 and Celica

Toyota considering hybrid sports car

Toyota is hoping to transfer its sales momentum to the sports car segment, Toyota executives told Dow Jones Newswires Monday. And a new hybrid model will be at the center of that movement, the sources said. The new model is "going to be global project, not one aimed at one region more than another. The concept is a hybrid," said Tokuo Fukuichi, the head of Toyota's ED2 design center. "We made a proposal to head office for a hybrid sports car. We're not sure that we're going to proceed with that but every time we develop a new car we consider a hybrid system. We have limited resources," he said.

Recent rumors have suggested a hybrid car could fill the gap left by the discontinuation of the Celica and MR2, and Fukuichi's comments seem to confirm that this is a strong possibility. "The sports car will come, but I don't know exactly when. Since we stopped production of the Celica and the MR2, there's a gap in that end of our range where we don't get the full impact of our participation in Formula 1," he said.

In February, we noted an Autocar report that suggested the Celica replacement will feature hybrid powertrain. The 2007/2008 model is said to be mid-engined, with four seats and all-wheel-drive. The car is also said to feature a folding metal hardtop — something that has never been seen before in a mid-engine car. It will take some inspiration from the CS+S Concept (shown right), the report said.

Fukuichi said Toyota has received a high volume of request for a sports car from dealers and customers. He said such a car would have to be affordable but also offer a lot of advanced technology. He said the target will be young, affluent buyers.

In April, Toyota's luxury division Lexus unveiled the Lexus LS 600h L — a powerful hybrid sedan with an impressive 430 horsepower and a SULEV (Super Low Emissions) rating.

toyota has been pushing hybrid sports cars for a long time now but nothing has really seemed like it was anywhere close to production... no target dates, no solid production level thinking... its all been press releases and speculation and such for so long now its getting a bit redundant. not saying your info isnt real or substantial or anything, its obvious toyota is taking a big lunge in this direction and will eventually reach it. it just seems this stuff is still a few good years off and they have no plans on filling the gap until then. but ya, good info and definatly a promising direction.

if the supra were to come out next week, i would have to problem parting with my Z....but that probably will never happen

chances are a new supra wouldnt be in the same price bracket as a Z

doesnt take much searching to find what you are looking for.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...041/PROMOBLOG01

"Supra: Not going to happen - all the rumors of the two-passenger sports car's return are false."

found this interesting too:
"Matrix: The redesign will come at the same time as the Corolla's, meaning the 2009 model year. Toyota wants the Matrix to be a destination vehicle for Scion owners."

funny... talking about scions not being daily drivers and apparently marketed towards people who can afford two cars... :scratches head:

"Camry Solara: Underachieving sales mean Toyota will kill the coupe and convertible after the 2008 model year. There is a chance a coupe could make a comeback in 2010."

killing the last convertible too... wow, we are on a roll.

boosted k2 im sure the supra would cost at least 10k more than the Z...but i was just saying i would trade my Z up for a supra

Man, some people in this thread talking like Toyota hasn't had a true sports car since the 5th gen altrac and MKII MR2 turbo. Too many people here talking up 16 year old technology in cars they've probably never even driven. Would you call the Miata a dud because it only makes 140hp? If you were around in 1995 would you be talking about how your 1979 Corolla definied "sporty"? Get with the times. There's more to what makes a car great than a 200hp 3S-GTE. Technology has come a long way; most of you kids are just too young for a dealer to even let you touch it.

And again, Toyota, make me the car and I'll be first in line with the suitcase of cash.

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Toyota's last sporty car was the 7th gen GTS, which 6th gen folk seem to NOT like because of its "honda-like" qualities. Toyota's last "true" sports car was the Supra in 98. Just so happens a lot of people here don't like the 7th gen because it's a rice car that has no torque or whatever... but these VERY SAME people can't afford a Supra. Why complain then? Hahah. If you're willing to spend 20-25K for a true toyota sports car... go buy a mkiv. Toyota isn't gonna build a sports car comparable to a BMW M3 and price it at around 1/2 that because a small enthusiast group *might* buy it.

Assuming Toyota makes a new sports car... it isn't gonna be in the price range of a V6 camry... which is anywhere from 22-28K. Expect at least 10K more than that. If you can afford that right now and are so disgruntled about having a sports car... you woulda went out and got a 350Z or WRX or something...

Lets just face it. Toyota was made for the older generation of people. Young guys or Young G's like us were never the target of fast sporty cars made from Toyota. Sure the Supra was twin turbo or turbo charged somewhere along the line, but it would cost us Young G's an Arm, a leg, and even a kidney or two.
Lets face it, if toyota was so popular we would be seeing them left and right and all riced up.
Even the newer ford mustangs are way less than a used $30K supra. Heck all new sporty cars are way less than a Supra sometimes.

Sometimes I'm just Glad that im the only one with a 20V 4age JDM motor at car meets.

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yeah...if money is talking...u know whats walking....and we as sports car lovers are smelling it big time!

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thats what co-signers are for behbe!!! lol (according to my younger cousin)

This post has been edited by easternpiro1: Sep 12, 2006 - 9:18 PM

Why be in F1 if they do not want to have a sports car or be in that market anyway? Why are they so keen on the sporty look and performance of the lexus and try to attack the BMWs. How difficult would it be to offer a coupe IS or GS?

Why do they offer a sport package for Prius now?

No Company ever made money from sports cars. Not Ferreari (now FIAT) not Porche (now VW) not Jaguar (now ford) etc. The sports cars are more an R&D thing and also a way of promotion. Will BMW make money on the M6. I dont think so.

And What about Subaru. The majority of their cars is sports cars. And Mitsubishi, their high selling items are the Montero/Pajero with the a history of winning in Paris/Dakar Rally and the Lancers (EVO anyone)

And what about Nissan. Their latest models are all crap. They have made though the Z and survive.

In my opinion, Toyota has replaced its image making activities from the making of sports car to sponsoring tennis and track events for promotion and there may be a time in the near future when Toyos become cars with no identity. As long as the Europeans and Americans cannot make dependable cars due to shortcommings in Electronics Toyota will have no problems. But what will happen when they catch up? And dont forget the competion from the Chinese and korean manufactures. There will be a time when quality will not be an issue. I know for sure that in Greece Hyunday and Scoda (Cheh subsidiary of VW) is making extraordinary high sales as the price is attractive and the started not having serious issues with quality. And they have excellent service for when such troubles arise.

Being in the Financial analysis business for quite some time I have only one thing to tell you. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.

Toyota consider your self warned.

"Corolla: Toyota has delayed the redesign for the United States by one year until spring 2008. A Toyota official blames this on engineering resources being stretched too thin. But sources say the original design and packaging were too plain compared to the Mazda3 and the Honda Civic; it was sent back to the drawing board."

My point exactly.

Sad but true...

Also, Toyota is actually loosing "quality" image in Europe. Majority of UK-assembled Toyotas are way behind old Japanese-origin ones.