I've already made my cosmetic and suspension plans for my Celica that will come in the future, but now I have to think about what is going to be under the hood. Sometimes it only frustrates me to think about it so I figured I would get some ideas and opinions.

OK, so far I've pretty much ruled out a 7a-fte project. It just doesn't seem like it will pay off in the long run. The minimum goal I'm wanting to achieve is 250 whp, and 250 lb-ft. of torque. How I get that... I really don't care. The problem I'm having is that I don't know where to start. I want something that is going to completely blow people's minds when they see it. I know that getting something like that requires custom work - and I'm not talking about the homemade kind (unless you're someone that knows how to do it). I don't know anyone at all that can make custom headers, mounts, intakes, piping, etc.

I know that probably the most fun project would be a 7a-gte. I'm really impressed by frotou's project. After seeing all the custom work he's had done, I doubt I would ever be able to pull something like that off. I guess the only other option I have would to be a 4a-gze or 3s-gte swap. After seeing all the trouble that John went through with his 4a-gze, I'm kinda iffy about that as well. I know that the 3s-gte would give me trouble since I have an ST. I haven't done that much research about it. I don't know which generation of the 3s-gte is better, or if it's more common to find a USDM 3s-gte for the swap or a JDM 3s-gte. Sitting around and thinking about all this just makes me want to turn the Celica into a beater and save up for an EVO. But despite that, all my friends say I should keep the Celica and fix it up beyond belief. I guess that's the path I'll go unless a swap or hybrid project drives me insane. I am by no means a car expert, and I wouldn't even touch my engine in any way other than to change the oil, spark plugs, belts, or any other job that a monkey with a wrench could do successfully. I'm all about tearing it apart to learn about it, but I wouldn't consider putting anything together on my car without some supervision (I think I got lucky when I successfully replaced my front axles). I dunno, maybe I know more about cars than I think, but I'm still nervous to do anything big.

Alright, I started rambling. So give me your ideas, opinions, criticism or anything else you can come up with.

250 whp is a VERY ambitious goal. The 4AGZE cannot do that, and I don't think even a 7AGTE can do that without a fair amount of building in the bottom end. Consider this... XXX_mina I think has the highest whp amougst active 6th gen Celica community members. He *had* around 290 whp BUT his engine started having problems so he de-tuned down to his current which is around 230-240 whp if I remember correctly. That's near MAX for a stock 3SGTE swap... and no other toyota 4 cyclinder is gonna see that without a lot of work, time, and money. If you're not confident enough to work on a project like this yourself, then I'd suggest you re-assess your goals because the money involved is pretty high...

I guess I'll just get a new car then. No potential, no point.

-Delta_Phoenix+Sep 26, 2004 - 4:48 AM

I just want to take full advantage of the Celica's handling. They're great autocross cars. But I also want to be able to destroy Honda Civic ricers cause they deserve that much >> When my car was bone stock except for the 18" wheels I had, I raced a guy with a newer model Civic that had CAI, header, exhaust, ignition, and plug wires (only mods I saw) and stayed right beside him the entire time. He also had 3 passengers, so I'm sure that gave him a weight disadvantage. So, at least I know that it won't take much for me to blow a Civic away.

In truth, I'm just wanting to get the Celica to a point where I think it's fun to drive. Don't get me wrong, it's fun right now, but I think it would be much better if it had a little more pep in the horsepower department.

How about this. swap your 7afe into a

new/low-mielage 5sfe
internal upgrades (piston, rods, etc)
head p/p
ripps modd supercharge
custom header
tune the car..

good for at least 200-230 hp

get pulley, crank blah blah blah..

very possible

This post has been edited by celicasupra209: Sep 27, 2004 - 4:43 PM

For starters, the 4agze will and can get to 250+ to the wheels, just not with the stock supercharger. I have a twinscrew kit available for the 4agze but that is another story. Secondly, if you really want 250 to the wheels then it can be done quite easily with the 3rd gen 3sgte out of a Celica St205. You can get 250 at the wheels with downpipe and boost controller reliably from this engine and that dear sir is a fact. You also have 7agze or 7agte as well. So many options for you Celica owners it is quite rediculous.


Ron (909) 283-3778
Motors Unlimited

-Mr2swift+Sep 29, 2004 - 4:35 AM

No sir, I am not talking about building the motor as I do not believe in opening up a motor to improve on what Toyota has already done. Especially when we are discussing A series and S series engines. I am talking about bolt on performance to get to 250whp.



Ron (909) 283-3778
Motors Unlimited

-Mr2swift+Sep 29, 2004 - 6:59 PM

-celicasupra209+Sep 27, 2004 - 9:43 PM

you don't need the gt-4 hood for the S/c i don't think but none the less you will need to figure out a hood arrangement
imo go get longer bolts and some metal spacers and just lift the back of the hood up, i have this on mine nifty look and helps take out the hot air and give you a little more clearance

i know edo17982 is rebuilding the 7a internals (here) now and is supose to be getting about 160whp. And u would be able to throw a nice ass boost on that, you could prolly easily achive the goals you want.

This post has been edited by psyko: Sep 30, 2004 - 9:17 AM

-Kwanza26+Sep 29, 2004 - 9:41 PM

-psyko+Sep 30, 2004 - 2:16 PM

He wants 160 wheel hp? thats optimistic on a 7a, but then again 140whp on the 7a is pretty high, whats that 160-165hp, impressive.

-Mr2swift+Sep 30, 2004 - 6:43 PM

Well now that the matter of tuning the 7A came up - does anyone think it would be possible to get 200whp out of it reliably?

Another question - can the 7A tranny stand up to that sort of power. I'm sure new axles would come into play, seeing as how I've read that the factory ones can't hold very much horsepower over what the 7A already has. I came to the conclusion that I was going to do a head conversion to get a 7A-GTE, but if it's possible to get at least 200whp out of it without a head swap I could reconsider.

ive seen a dyno sheet of a 7a-fte makign 160whp at i think 8 psi. but i know nothing else of tuning or anything else. its zipstrips you should send him a pm if your curious

i think that the 7afe can make 200whp but not on stock internals.

This post has been edited by recneps: Oct 1, 2004 - 8:27 AM

heres the dyno

http://www.6gc.net/photo.php?file=/images/...hotos/87_23.jpg

think of it this way.....what motor would give you the best potential? the 7a? the 5s? or the 3sgte? then start building that up to reach your goal.

with just a 3sgte swap, youll be able to take out any honda out there, and have a very fun to drive celica.

I've been looking around at some of the swaps done here. I really don't know if I'm ready to do a swap. The only person I really know that knows anything at all about cars is John, and he's a good 30 minutes away. I work 12 hours 5 days a week and would only be able to do work to the Celica on weekends. Whether I do an engine swap or a head swap, it's going to take a lot of time. I don't really want to trouble John with all of it, nor trouble myself with having to drive to his house every weekend. Plus, I don't know anywhere to store my car while I'm working on it. I would rather do a head swap in all honesty. That way I can just find a cheap, semi-low-mileage 7a-fe and then swap the engines when I get the wiring and all that done. I know it's not going to be that easy, but that would seem to take some of the stress out of swapping. I also don't have another car to drive. So I really have some planning to do.

But since I've been looking around, the 4a-ge silvertop swaps have really caught my eye. It's a really nice looking engine and has decent power to be n/a. The only thing I wonder is can it be turboed on the stock internals? If I could get that engine up to around 220bhp I would be more than satisfied. On the other hand, like Coomer said if you're doing a swap you might as well find a 3s-gte for it. In the end, all I really want is a turboed engine running around 18psi, because the sound of a BOV gives me that nice warm feeling in those nice warm places >>

-Delta_Phoenix+Oct 2, 2004 - 12:31 PM

I've read about everything I possibly can about it, and I have plenty of time to read more. It will probably be spring or summer before I can start working on this, since I have quite a bit of cosmetic and suspension work planned. I'm just wanting to get an early start on this so I can learn what I don't know about swapping and/or boosting.

i feel as though the 7a isnt getting enough credit. if you build up all the internals and port and polish. you could get that baby boosting about 9 psi. also throw in all your other stuff pulleys cam gears ignition ecu injectors etc. i feel and i will soon find out that the 7a-fe is going to have more potential then anyone ever expected. im going to be workin on a 7afe over the next year by myself. rebuilding and fixing and replacing everything. with stronger lighter faster parts. it wil be fast it will run hard. and it wont die!

I'm just not too interested in boosting an engine that is using a fuel-efficient head. I'm also not too interested in fooling with my 7afe, seeing as how it has over 151k miles on it. I have intake and exhaust, along with some Denso Iridium plugs, and that will probably be the most of what I'll do to my engine. The 7a tranny isn't very impressive either, and as far as I know there are no alternatives. I've been looking for info on the potential of the 20V 4age silvertop, but I'm having minimal luck. I did find someone that has a boosted 4age, but as far as any details there were none listed. I haven't found any luck sourcing performance parts for the 4age, which really bothers me. With the stress this is causing me, I'm ready to fix the Celica and trade it in for something else. Now I'm gonna go pop a few Midol...

-Kwanza26+Oct 2, 2004 - 4:33 PM

"i feel as though the 7a isnt getting enough credit. if you build up all the internals and port and polish. you could get that baby boosting about 9 psi. also throw in all your other stuff pulleys cam gears ignition ecu injectors etc. i feel and i will soon find out that the 7a-fe is going to have more potential then anyone ever expected. im going to be workin on a 7afe over the next year by myself. rebuilding and fixing and replacing everything. with stronger lighter faster parts. it wil be fast it will run hard. and it wont die! "

i agree with him on this ^^

if you do these:
a)port and polish
b)3angle valve
c)bore to 82mm
d)4agze pistons
e)blueprint and balance(not sure if the p&p would come with this?!)
f) cam regrind
g)pulleys
h)flywheel and clutch

you could easily do 12psi on a 7afe it just takes the money and time to do it right and the determination to work on a 7 lol

its one of those pride things in your car......personally i think the biggest amount of pride i would have would be saying "yea thats the original motor and a 7 at that!" then "yea the original engine sucked so i swapped it out for a different one"

This post has been edited by playr158: Oct 3, 2004 - 12:21 PM

-shadycrew31+Oct 3, 2004 - 11:34 AM

oh i know that with stock internals it will suck. but like i said im leaving nothing stock. im also cryo freezing whole whoel thing after im done. im getting the turbo and manifold on tuesday. and the engine next month. and ever ymonth something different ,its gonna be fun. casue no one will ever expect a 7a-fe to have the power this bad boy is gonna have. >> and even still 220 is a pain in the ass goal i recomend that you read the fourms a lil bit more and get used to your powerplant and then make your choice. but everyone has a different expirence. there was one guy on here waited 1 yr to get his baby back. another guy waited like 2 months, its all different. but go in it with an attiude of my car is the best and im gonna make it better. and on the terms of a fuel efficent head. the 5s is one of them to. the best heads for toyota are the ge's. but i think i will have to disagree with kwanza i have 2 cams on my 7a if ijm not mistaken.

This post has been edited by shadycrew31: Oct 3, 2004 - 5:03 PM