I sent you my tune file over the weekend. Have you had a chance to take a look at it? I can already see my overrun fuel cut settings are off. I am trying to get a basic tune together to make the car safe. I plan to take the car to Phoenix, AZ to get a good dyno tune (not many good tuners around here). I have a couple of other questions:
1. I used the Megasquirt online tool to set up my timing map. Do you know how to get a copy of the stock 5sfe ECU ignition timing map? Any tips when adjusting the ignition timing map?
2. How do you set up the knock sensor?

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Aug 15, 2016 - 11:14 PM

I updated your tune file with some new settings and emailed it back to you. I have a few comments.

1. What injectors are you using? Are they 460cc rx7 red injectors? If so, I believe those are commonly used in Miats and the correct dead time (lag time) might be around 1.2. You might want to google search to see if you can find an exact value.

2. Injector battery voltage correction:
After you input the correct dead time and tune the fuel map in the idle cells to 14.7, disconnect the oval plug from your alternator while the car is running. Then watch the ego correction gauge and adjust that battery correction factor so that your idle is still 14.7 with zero ego correction at about 11-12v. The value I used for my car works well for me, but it might be different on your car due to having different injectors.

3. In the overrun fuel cut I originally had some settings that would cause the car to stall when driving with AC on. I adjusted the settings to the new values in your tune.

4. in the Ignition Options menu there is a setting for Hardware Spark Latency. You need to tune this specifically to your car. Set the ignition timing to FIXED timing @ 15 degress. Use a timing light to set your base timing. Then while still in that mode, rev the engine up and hold the rpm while watching the timing light. If your timing drifts down from 15 degress, adjust the hardware spark latency until it is steady through the rev range. On my car I found a value of about 190 worked well, however your car might not need this setting and having 190 in that field could potentially cause your engine to run too much timing advance.

5. I loaded up the 3sgte base Ignition map into your tune and took out a few degrees due to it being a high compression motor. The map should work okay on the 5sfe, but you should really have this tuned on a load bearing dyno (not a basic Dynojet). I have never seen a 5sfe timing map so its all just guess work.

6. I use a J&S Safeguard for knock detection because the built in knock control is not that great on the diypnp. However someone on mr2oc posted about the settings that he used when setting his up.

7. As you know, you really need to tune the VE table using the autotune feature in Tunerstudio. The values that you have in there right now are far from correct and will cause all kinds of stalling issues as the engine lacks fuel in certain cells where it comes back down to idle.

This post has been edited by lagos: Aug 17, 2016 - 12:10 AM

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Thanks for all the help! I went and found the injector dead time for the 460cc RX7 injectors that I am using and got the following values:

1.185 @ 14.4V or 1.2 @13.4V

I enriched a couple of cells around the idle and plan to do the autotune and adjust any timing drift this weekend. As for setting up the stock knock sensor, DIYAUTOTUNE provided me with the following information:

There's not much adjustment here - you'll just want to adjust the sensitivity trim pot to the point where it JUST won't pick up knock on a safe tune.

For settings in TunerStudio, see this link.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/pdf/html/Megasq...ce-3.4-110.html

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Awesome!
So use 1.2 but ALSO make sure to check the battery voltage correction by disconnecting the oval plug on the alternator as I described.
Its super critical to do this before trying to tune the VE table because if those settings are not correct, you will have all kinds of fueling issues when humidity or temperature changes.

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So I went through and tried to tune my idle to 14.5 - 14.7 AFR and the car kept on dying out. It would hunt around the fuel and ignition table for a while before finally just sputtering out. I did some research and found when the idle isn't steady it is most likely an ignition timing issue. I went to a fixed timing of 10 degrees BTDC the car idled better but still was giving me trouble so I started adding fuel until the the idle was strong and that was at 13.2 AFR. The timing table you had set up for me had the cells for idle set to 19 BTDC. I remember when I took some logs of the car when I had the AEM piggyback and stock ECU kept the timing at 8-10 BTDC at idle. Also, I remember reading somewhere that the 5sfe likes to run a little rich especially at idle. I used the Megasquirt timing table estimator along with you table and created a hybrid of the two that would give me a good idle but some good timing for boost as well. Problem solved. I then worked on the voltage correction and got the EGO correction gauge to stay at 100%. Tomorrow I will ensure that timing does not float when I am on the throttle and then start auto tuning the rest of the fuel table.

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Aug 19, 2016 - 9:48 PM

Keep the same afr target table. The car should idle just fine at 14.7 AFR. Here are a few things to try to fix this.

1. turn off ego correction. Sometimes if the values in the PID section are not correct, it will cause oscillation. Turn it off to see if its causing the problem.
2. turn off closed loop idle. The PID values might be wrong, or you need to set up the initial idle values table to work better with your setup.
3. The timing table might be at 19 degrees, but the actual value the car idles at comes from Idle Adaptive Advance. Try changing that graph to a single value like 15 degrees.

This post has been edited by lagos: Aug 21, 2016 - 4:25 PM

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You were right! I turned off EGO correction, set to open loop (warm up) idle, and changed the Idle Adaptive Advance table. The Idle Adaptive Advance table was set to 20 degrees, no wonder I was having problems. I played with it and the fuel table. Now the idle is steady at 12-13 degrees (checked with a timing light) with an AFR between 14.5 and 14.7. I also re-entered the 3sgte table you gave me with the timing taken out up top.

Awesome !

Keep in mind that you're going to want to re-enable things like ego correction and closed loop idle, but you should do them one by one until you get settings that don't oscillate. I would start out with tuning closed loop idle. You can use the test mode for the idle control valve to find some basic values to enter into your initial target table for the current temperature. Then if you have any oscillation, you will have to adjust the Proportional Integral and Derivative terms. EGO also uses PID for closed loop. Its not a bad idea to look up some videos to learn more about PID tuning on youtube.

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I tried to use the AC1 pinout on the ECU for idle up and it did not work. I am going to have to wire the idle up the way you did. Do you remember where the ground switching wire is under the hood? Is it close to the relay box where the fan relays and AC clutch relay is?

Yup, the wire goes directly to that relay box to switch the AC relay.

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I am a little confused with this statement. Is the wire to cut the one that goes to the MGC pin on the AC amplifier or the one that goes to the AC magnetic clutch? Then when I cut the ground wire going to the AC relay in the fuse box under the hood. I connect the ground side of the cut wire to the flex pin on the DIYPNP. Then I connect the relay side of the cut wire to the PAO using one of the relays on the DIYPNP board. Set the PAO to output and the flex to input in TunerStudio under the AC idle up settings. Is that correct? Do I need to run the flex connection through one of the board relays?

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Aug 30, 2016 - 10:07 PM

Here is the basic idea:

1. Don't connect any of the AC related functions that exist on the OEM ECU to Megasquirt and verify that the AC works just fine without them (with the exception of the idle up functionality).

2. Find the wire that sends the ground switching control signal to the AC relay located in the engine bay on the passengers side of the car. You want to cut this wire and have Megasquirt intercept this signal.

3. Once you have the wire cut, connect the signal side of the wire directly to the Flex input. No need to run this through any MS relays.

4. Connect the PA0 pin to Relay1 IN on Megasquirt, and connect Relay1 OUT directly to the AC relay in the fuse box.


In this configuration Megasquirt will see that the factory ac amp wants to turn on the AC and will delay this signal by a few seconds so that it can idle the engine up first to create a smooth transition. I will take a look at my wiring book and let you know the color of the wire that goes to the AC relay.

This post has been edited by lagos: Aug 31, 2016 - 11:03 AM

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Is this the wire that needs to be cut? I have it circled in red. It looks like it goes to the MGC pin on the AC amplifier.

I did some researching and figured out how to get the idle up to working by using the AC1 pinout on the ECU! I did the following.
1. Connected the PAO to the RELAY1 IN on the Megasquirt and the RELAY1 OUT to the engine ground.
2. Connected the FLEX on the Megasquirt to the AC1 pinout.
3. In Tunerstudio in the Air Conditioning Idle Up screen I set the output to PAO, the input to FLEX, and the Idle-Up Input polarity to Low.
That was it, every time I turn on the AC within a few seconds the DIYPNP recognizes the AC compressor is on and idles up the engine. I was going to tap into the AC Relay like Lagos said but that would defeat the purpose of me chosing the Megasquirt. My goal is to cut into the factory wiring as little as possible to avoid causing some damage I could not repair. So far the only wire I had to cut for the Megaquirt was the intake air temp sensor harness to add a GM sensor. I figured if the stock ECU can idle up with the AC1 input then so can the Megasquirt. Lagos, thanks for all the help in figuring out this ECU. I would not have been able to track this problem down without your help.

Another problem I am recognizing is that the DIYPNP is very limited on additional features remaining if you go with the sequential injection mod. If I want to use a boost controller, I am out of ports for that function. The PAO, PT6, and PT7 are the only ports that can use a boost controller. When you go sequential injection, PT6 and PT7 taken to control the injectors and if you attempt to use them Tunerstudio will give you a config error. With me using the PAO for the AC idle up, I have nothing left to run a boost controller unless I switch back to batch fire injection and reclaim the PT6 and PT7 ports for use. Are there any other options?

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Sep 2, 2016 - 6:25 PM

Just to clear up the original question, yes that is the same wire that I intercepted for the ac relay. When I did my modification, I used some nice insulated bullet connectors so that I could easily reconnect the factory wiring if needed.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Premium-Fully-...FMAAOxyTjNShyND

So you're getting an input signal from AC1, but your output is simply going to ground? This will idle the engine up since MS has an input that tells it the AC wants to turn on, but it doesn't sound like it will allow MS to delay the AC compressor from turning on. What you want is for MS to get a signal that requests the AC to come on, idle the engine up and then turn the AC compressor on after about 700ms. This will create a smooth transition as the AC cycles on and off. Right now it sounds like your idle up and compressor are turning on at the same exact time.

You are 100% right that the DIYPNP is a bit limited on outputs, especially when using sequential injection. You can however use WLED and ALED if they are not being used for anything important. On my setup I have ALED setup to simply turn on the CEL light when the key in ON but engine is not running. I could use that output for boost control if I wanted to.

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I thought the WLED and ALED pins could only be used for on/off type of functions. If that is the case can I use them for the AC idle up and save the PAO for boost control? Will I need to run the WLED or ALED through a relay circuit? In the drawing from my previous post, I circled part of it, was that the correct AC relay wire you tapped into? Again, thanks so much for the help! I am not sure how I would have gotten this DIYPNP to work without your advice.

I'm not 100% sure if they could be used for PWM control, but you could use them for the AC like you said and use PA0 for boost. I don't think they need the relay circuit and can drive an automotive relay directly. Just make sure they supply a ground signal. You can command them to turn on in the Test I/O menu of Tuner Studio to ensure correct functionality.


Yes that is the correct wire the the AC relay.

This post has been edited by lagos: Sep 5, 2016 - 11:48 PM

This thread is going to change gears and deal with my 3sgte swap on the same vehicle. Now that I have fixed all the issues I had with the car and the 3sgte 4th gen swap it is now time to work on getting my standalone ECU installed. Luckily I kept my DIYPNP 76pin from my 5sfte build. The problem is that it is a 76 pin which is different from the 4th gen 3sgte. DIYAUTOTUNE sells a 122 pin kit that converts it to the proper pin out. I installed the new pin out mod and soldered the wiring to it.



Now I am ready to drop it in the car.

Please see the following thread if you want to see how I did my build:
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=96700

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Jul 27, 2017 - 11:45 AM

After messing with the DIYPNP for the 4th gen 3sgte I found it was going to be a downgrade using it. Since the motor is sequential injection and COP ignition, I was using all my outputs just to work those basic features. I was going to lose all my idle up capabilities and would not have anything left for any expansion down the road. The DIYPNP is great for a batch injection and distributor setup of the 5s but as the motor becomes more complex the ECU loses the ability for the extra fun stuff.

After talking with the people at DIYAUTOTUNE, I decided to pull the trigger on a MS3pro EVO. This will give me all the basic functions I need plus the ability to add extra sensors, performance mods, and safety features. I plan to start with their base 3sgte tune and go from there. The final goal will be to get it running well with the Auto Tuning features. That should yield me a safe tune. Then I will take it to a tuner to get the fine ignition timing tuning done. The great thing is since I will be building this as a plug and play unit I will have the ability to go back to the stock ECU if I want to move the ms3 to another vehicle.

My car put down 238 horsepower and 233 torque on the dyno at 15 psi. That is with aftermarket camshafts and a stock ECU. With my stage 1 BC camshafts and a good tune I am going to shoot for 280 horsepower.

I will be starting a new thread to document this work because this is no longer dealing with the DIYPNP ECU.

This post has been edited by HardHead93: Sep 3, 2017 - 3:17 PM