>>KING'S X>>


Looks like I was fooling myself when I thought I saw that moving the parking brake lever back and forth caused the star wheel to advance.

>>>>THE RIGHT SIDE ADJUSTER DOES NOT TURN!>>>>

That puts me back at the first sub-step of STEP 9, which says that

>> "If the adjuster does not turn, check for incorrect installation of the rear brake.">>


I took that side apart for the umpteenth time, looked over everything I could imagine might be incorrect. Re-measured the clearance between the shoe and the parking lever, found it possibly slightly too large, so installed a 0.013" shim and put the brake back together again. NADA!!

Spent another hour examining the operation of the levers and the star wheel and comparing the two sides. Finally resorted to pulling up the parking brake again to see if I could detect any difference between the two sides with the PB engaged. . .

>>AND FOUND SOMETHING>>

>>Here is where I need expert advice.>>

On the left side, the side I presume to be working properly because manipulating the PB lever causes the star wheel to advance, pulling the PB full up causes the PB lever (attached to the rear shoe) to pull forward to the extent that the automatic adjusting lever actually touches the shaft of the hub (or comes damn close). Also, the lowest part of the PB lever touches a finger-like tab that is part of the lower center bracket (the bracket that carries the PB cable on one side and the anchor spring on the other; just above the PB cable running in that bracket there are two finger-like tabs sticking out). The travel of the PB lever is stopped by that tab, and when it is stopped the lever arm of the automatic adjusting lever (the metal arm that does the turning of the star wheel) is standing raised somewhat off the star wheel teeth, in the air.

On the right side, pulling the PB full up causes the PB lever to move out a fair amount, but it doesn't come close to touching the hub or lower bracket finger tab. Instead, it seems to be stopped by another, lower down, part of the bracket, and that holds the PB lever back about a quarter inch, maybe a little more. As a result of traveling so little, the lever arm of the automatic adjusting lever is still resting on the star wheel's teeth. It doesn't get pulled into the air. It's no wonder the star wheel isn't turning!

Next, on both sides I looked very closely at the parking brake cable as it comes into the rear brake area and goes over the lower bracket (beneath the two finger-like tabs) and onto the PB lever, where it attaches at the bottom.

The PB cable on the left side seems taught and centered in its channel in the lower bracket, whereas on the right side, it doesn't seem as taught, and doesn't squarely ride in the center of its channel in the lower bracket. It seems to me that the lack of PB lever travel on the right side is due to the PB lever hitting the wrong spot on the lower bracket, but also it seems that the PB cable might be too long and thus might be fighting with the PB lever. [I am not at all certain of this, so take it with a grain of salt; today I intend on removing all parts from both wheels and carefully examine all parts and the assemblies of them. At that time I will carefully measure the exact length of the cable that is inside the wheel (it bolts on at the back of the backer plate).]

>>HAS ANYONE EVER EXPERIENCED THIS PROBLEM? IF THE PB CABLE WAS TOO LONG, HOW DO i SHORTEN THE LENGTH OF PB CABLE THAT EXTENDS INTO THE RIGHT REAR BRAKE?>>

>>OR>>

>>WHAT ELSE COULD BE WRONG?>>


It might help if you take a look at these photos:

Adjuster photos:

http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/GuiermoV...rake%20Adjuster

Closeups of right rear

http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/GuiermoV...g%20differences

Closeups of left rear

http://s1273.photobucket.com/user/GuiermoV...owing%20problem


This post has been edited by Langing: May 23, 2014 - 8:59 AM

A week ago I met the man (on-line) who amazed me with his video (in Spanish) tutorial about taking apart Celica dashboards. If you haven't seen it, you really ought to spend a little time watching him disassemble his Celica dash completely. You can learn a lot about Toyota secrets of interior parts disassembly. To me, this man is a genius for taking things apart and getting them back together. He has done over 15 dashboards to date, and he paints them. Plus he truly likes to help people solve problems. His Spanish video is at YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ9yYj_0l3U

He did it again in English, which is also good, but the best is the Spanish version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJ3A1N4kOHY

Anyway, he said he would help anyone with problems, and I had a real problem with my drum brakes, so I zipped off a request and damn if he didn't spend more than a day helping me figure out what to do with my brake problem. To make the long story short, he recommended that I set the adjuster such that the threaded portion (exposed space = adjuster length extension) was a little less than a quarter of an inch as an initial starting point. And then work from there (trial and error) to home in on the proper initial adjustment. It wasn't long before I had satisfied myself that I had a good initial adjustment set for the clearance between the shoes and the drums on both rear wheels. Actually, the Drum Brake Readjustment Tool from AmPro had come in and I was able to use it to set in the proper clearance so easily with that tool (plus you don't need to buy a 12" vernier caliper to take measurements in order to get a proper clearance of 0.024"), I discovered that it put me in an initial condition for the clearance that produced a little less than one quarter of an inch thread exposed in the adjusters, just like Luis had said and I believe either approach gives the same result. So, I declared victory and moved on to work on the right front disc problem.

Well, according to this gentleman, Luis, what I was dealing with was the difference between OEM and aftermarket parts, and frequently one must make accommodations for this or that deficiency in form, fit or function of a bastard part. When the FSM said to begin with the adjusters tightened to their shortest possible length, it brought out a tolerance problem within the component assembly, but when I started at the quarter inch point, the brakes worked reasonably close to properly.

So, I left the rear, with its tires mounted, on jack-stands. When I last was dealing with them, I could spin the left tire and it would revolve 20 times before stopping, and the right 13 times. They spun freely, with very little drag.

Yesterday, I tried to spin one of them and found it locked, stuck, could not turn it at all. Checked the PB, it was lowered. Tried the other rear tire, and found the same result. Before I tear into them to find out for myself, I want to ask you a question and give you a little time to think about it.

QUESTION: What is my problem?

you know how I solved this problem??
BuY a Damn GT!! I hate drum brakes.

but maybe you've just got the parking brake cable too tight, try loosening it at the cable nut on the parking brake lever.

>


Correct Answer!

That's exactly what I had planned to do first.

Since you have been so kind recommending where to start, I will use that to trigger getting off my. . . seat and going out to loosen the cable right now.

TX

>


TX much! Fixed! PB = 5 clicks!

with mine I had it set to about 5-7 clicks and it seemed ok, but then when I was driving down the road it would suddenly start to grab and make this awful noise.
so I loosened and tested it to be sure it was just as tight as it needed to be to hold the car on a hill, and not much tighter

Really? Sounds like I better loosen it a bit more before I get her back on the road. I sure don't want that to happen to me.

Just enough to hold on a steep hill and no more; sounds like sound advice, thanks! How many clicks was that?

Now I have to fix my dial indicator (bought 5 Federal indicators in a single pack on ebay today for $20; used but supposedly working fine; resolution to 0.002 mm = 7.87402e-5 inch) so I can make sure my front disc has little to no run-out. Only then can I get back to checking why my disc was scraping the mounting bracket. Since cast iron can't bend, and I'm positive I didn't mess the mounting bracket to that degree, the orientation of the rotor is all that could possibly be incorrect. But before I discovered the problem, I thought I had gotten the run-out minimized. Tried again today to first measure at the inner ring of the hub and thought my current indicator was sticking (0.0001"), so I took it apart and could not get the bezel back on and can't figure out why. That's when I went to ebay.

Patience, patience, patience. . . is a virtue, is a virtue, is a virtue. . .

I think It may have something to do with how worn the Ebrake shoes are, mine was owned by some kid who liked to do Ebrake Uturns or something.
as long as it holds without pulling the lever All the way up you'll be ok

>

So, it should hold on a hill with the PB pulled up, but not all the way? I was thinking the PB had to be pulled full up whenever engaged. Hey, thanks for the information. The things you are telling me are very helpful at my current state of knowledge.

As to your buying your car from someone who has driven it somewhat hard -- you mean to tell me that those YouTube videos of crazy kids making turns and U-turns by pulling on the Ebrake are for real? I remember "squealing" my brand new GTO's tires, just to show people I could do it, till I had to buy new tires, but that behavior stopped as soon as I realized the costs. With what I know now, I wouldn't dare, thinking of the harm it might do to the suspension, etc., not to mention a possible crash. Guess when I was a kid I was just as crazy as kids today.

Found a thread that is encouraging:


>>>>Keep warping rotors, im really frustrated! Getting warped for the 3rd time>> >> (Last Post was in July of 2006)

The initiator was a fellow named eliaz, and he described having severe brake problems that manifest as warped rotors; they could warp in as little as 250 miles!!!

By the end of the two page discussion, someone suggested the possibility of having a bent hub/wheel bearing assembly, the whole assembly bent in such a way that the rotor was not rotating in the proper plane, causing the rotor to be in constant contact with the brake pads, causing the rotor to heat up to a high temperature (what better way to warp a rotor?).

>>>>MAJOR MILESTONE:>>
>>

Thanks to everyone who helped me understand what I was doing. It's been quite a trip, but (with luck) finally I think I have this job done.

Finished replacing all four wheel bearings (with HF hand tools; no press), both rotors, both drums, both front ball joints and tie rod ends, all brake shoes and pads, all rubber brake lines, brake hardware, sway bar links, rebuilt both front disc calipers, and replaced the passenger side engine mount. Fully tested the brake pedal and adjusted the hand brake. Had to pull a steering knuckle from a Celica in a junkyard to replace the right front because it had bent ears used for mounting the caliper bracket, which bent ears caused the bracket to cut into the rotor when I first got the front brakes installed (new rotor and pads made the -- hidden -- problem evident).

Maximum allowable run-out for my 1994 Celica 0.0020"
---------------------------------Right front run-out is 0.0004"
-----------------------------------Left front run-out is 0.0007"

Yesterday we took Betsy to get inspection and new registration, came back and washed and waxed her, so today my wife was able to drive Betsy to work the first time in three months!

>>If you didn't have this this info and just looked at Betsy, all you would notice is the wax!>>



Reading about other people's projects has turned me on to things I want to do to Betsy in the near future, but for now I have to give it a rest. I have learned so much my head is larger.

Now on to fix the "check engine" light on the 2000 Tacoma pickup. It's showing too much flow through the Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system, an emissions system that is supposed to eliminate oxides of Nitrogen (gases called NOX) by routing some of the exhaust (burnt gas) through the intake, which cools the heat of combustion, and wastes gas in a trade-off that reduces acid rain.

This post has been edited by Langing: Jul 22, 2014 - 11:33 AM

Congrats! I'm sure you were more than ready to be finished with this job!

>

You can say that again!

Still, since each step was a learning adventure, I felt a bit sad, for some reason, when this overly drawn out project finally completed. Starting out I just wanted to redo her brakes, but once I was into it, there were the wheel bearings, and then . . . Momentum was building when coming down the stretch but I had learned some stuff so I changed out one brother's front brake pads on his Honda Accord EX, and another brother's left front axle and both front shocks on his (gigantic) Suburban to show myself that I had, indeed, learned something.

Now I'm finished with my Betsy "wheels" project, but, there are so many things I see you guys doing to your Celicas that I feel I want to start another project on Betsy and maybe take Betsy to full restoration or beyond (no doubt something far short of that), cause I love driving her. I liked what >>njccmd2002>> was doing to his suspension on the 96 he just sold, and now I am looking to buy a large sized compressor so I can sand blast. Since I don't know much about this kind of work, I don't know my limitations.

BTW: Is there a venue on here where I could post some pics of Betsy's dermatological "problems" and get a group of you experts to advise as to what I could do about them and then what needs to be added to make her body look "striking" so I don't feel like people think I am just driving an OLD CAR? This would sure help my wife. . . to see Betsy looking better than before after I've spent months working on her. All that work I did. . . Betsy drives smoother than ever, but there is NOTHING THAT SHOWS!!!

I need help figuring out where to start, advice that 'hopefully' comes without the word 'LOWER'. In the meantime, I've got to fix that EGR problem.

6gcs definately look better an inch or two lower.
Some wheels and sideskirts would definately make it look sexier too.

>
How do I go about lowering it an inch or so, and what problems might I expect after she's been lowered? Like, will I still be able to get the floor jack under her, and will she scrape over "slow humps?" Or is there some tutorial article on this site?

Could you point me to a couple of "wheel" photos as examples you think might look good?

What are "side-skirts"? Where do I get them? Are they hard to add?

I'm still very new at doing this kind of work on my Celica. I'm pretty good down around the wheels at this point, especially caring for brakes and wheel bearings; no fear. But there's still a ton I don't know and want to learn; I very much appreciate your help.