KAOS

#1

I'm looking for some advice. The engine is almost back in the car, and I then need to finish the chassis upgrades.

I have a ST front sway bar to install and my friend seems to think that if I remove the sway bar altogether and NOT install the ST bar, that will significantly remove any understeer.

<- I gave him one of these.

Doesn't make much sense to me to completely remove it; the new REAR sway bar is installed and set to stiff. But I can't see this car having so much HP that understeer would be affected at all...

Squash this inner turmoil for me.

... and GO!

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KAOS|THE PROGRESSION - SLOW & STEADY|PARTING OUT- it ALL must go!|

JoshuaM

#2

Lots of threads on this.... somewhere, lol

Rear stiffening = less understeer from everything I've been told.

Make sure you have decent tyres before you spend money on bracing though.

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SOLD :( 1997 ST204 Celica ZR ----->See it here on 6GC!2013 October Celica of the Month XDNow: '00 NB8B Mazda MX5 ----->See it here in off topic!

playr158

#3

I disconnected my frontsway bar in my MKIV Jetta Turbo....its pretty common in that group.

Good poly bushings in the control arms, quality tires, a bit of negative camber should definitely help

qatar11

#4

>

QUOTE (KAOS @ Oct 22, 2013 - 9:35 AM)

>I'm looking for some advice. The engine is almost back in the car, and I then need to finish the chassis upgrades.

I have a ST front sway bar to install and my friend seems to think that if I remove the sway bar altogether and NOT install the ST bar, that will significantly remove any understeer.

<- I gave him one of these.

Doesn't make much sense to me to completely remove it; the new REAR sway bar is installed and set to stiff. But I can't see this car having so much HP that understeer would be affected at all...

Squash this inner turmoil for me.

... and GO!

I'm curious... under what conditions are you experiencing understeer?

This post has been edited by qatar11: Oct 22, 2013 - 2:38 PM

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-Mikemjcoury@gmail.comTeam Reynolds StyleCelica BlogCelica WikiIt will take him a moment to realize that he's about to make a 180 degree turn at speed, but you will be ready for it. Brace for the g's, and fast heel-toe work.

Box

#5

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/tec...e.jsp?techid=58

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2001 Miata LS 5-speed

delusionz

#6

to reduce understeer do some or any of these upgrades



FRONT: 3pt strut brace, high perf tyres, -1deg neg camber, lowering

REAR: rear swaybar, cheap tyres, raise rear, neutral 0 camber

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Mike W1996 Toyota Celica ST205 GT-FOURGT2860RS turbine, TiAL mvr44, JE 86.5φ piston, Clutchmasters FX400, APEX P-FC269awhp / 273ft-lbs

RabidTRD

#7

Want less under steer? Raise the rear! By giving the car a slight but of "rake" you effectively raise the center of gravity, causing the rear to come around instead of the front. You also want a stiffer sway bar in the rear with stiffer end links (I recommend MOOG because of how thick they are) and urethane bushing on the rear bar. A bit of camber and you can actually oversteer in a Celica.

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-S 5S-FE 190k Miles. Project car1992 Toyota Celica GT 5S-FE 170k Miles. Daily driver/beater1999 Toyota Camry LE 5S-FE 216K Miles. RIP You will be missed.*ASECertifiedGeneralManager

BonzaiCelica

#8

I heard removing front sway bar makes hard braking unstable. Get suoerstrut suspension

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Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle partshttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514

delusionz

#9

or fix your driving. if your car cant turn? pull the e-brake.

fix your driving line so youve already made some of the turn before accelerating, then you can create a weight transfer

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Mike W1996 Toyota Celica ST205 GT-FOURGT2860RS turbine, TiAL mvr44, JE 86.5φ piston, Clutchmasters FX400, APEX P-FC269awhp / 273ft-lbs

KAOS

#10

Sorry, I think the point of this topic wasn't clearly communicated.

I wanted to tell my buddy that he was out of his mind.

(a) not RACECAR
(b) never will be driven to the extremes that I would ever experience oversteer/understeer
© the suspension goodies were purchased all at the same time with the twos r us end links, and adjustable Tokicos at a great price. (so I'd like to install them all anyways, iiregardless of the usage they'll receive)
(d) I would maybe AutoX the car later in life

Basically, I wanted the suspension guru's to give me some technical facts that I could take to him and say; I'm putting the front sway bar on, I will never see understeer on this car, etc etc etc.

I've pretty much just answered my own request, but I like to hear more information about reducing understeer anyways, so keep it going! There have been some good pointers so far.

This post has been edited by KAOS: Oct 22, 2013 - 4:54 PM

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KAOS|THE PROGRESSION - SLOW & STEADY|PARTING OUT- it ALL must go!|

delusionz

#11

oh yeah, i didnt properly read the first post.

Yes, install both, set front to normal, set rear to stiff, or if in doubt... install both on the middle setting

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Mike W1996 Toyota Celica ST205 GT-FOURGT2860RS turbine, TiAL mvr44, JE 86.5φ piston, Clutchmasters FX400, APEX P-FC269awhp / 273ft-lbs

Box

#12

The link I posted /thread

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2001 Miata LS 5-speed

mkernz22

#13

Our cars hardly understeer at all... even when mine was stock it would barely understeer. You also need to know how to corner properly; like when to brake, when to coast, when to get on the gas, and also you need to have a nice line through a corner. Obviously, if you cut the wheel sharp and stomp on the gas, you'll get a bunch of understeer lmao

With my setup;
front 3pt strut bar
rear 2pt strut bar
interior harness bar
coilovers all around
about -1.7 to -1.9 camber in the front
about -3 to -3.5 of camber in the rear (didn't plan for that to happen, just did when I installed my coilovers)
bridgestone potenza re-760 sport tires

I don't get any understeer at all. No oversteer either, but I can make the rear end kick a little bit lol

And to answer your question, if you install the front ST sway bar, it will help with the understeer.
But like you said, NOTRACECAR, so you shouldn't even be worried haha

qatar11

#14

Also, as a general rule; passenger cars are designed to understeer. It's a safer, "loss of car control" scenario than say... some snappy oversteer.



>

QUOTE (mkernz22 @ Oct 22, 2013 - 7:26 PM)

>about -3 to -3.5 of camber in the rear (didn't plan for that to happen, just did when I installed my coilovers)

Holy crazy tire wear, Batman!

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-Mikemjcoury@gmail.comTeam Reynolds StyleCelica BlogCelica WikiIt will take him a moment to realize that he's about to make a 180 degree turn at speed, but you will be ready for it. Brace for the g's, and fast heel-toe work.

RabidTRD

#15

Camber doesn't wear tires down. Alignment and toe issues is what kills tires.

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1994 Toyota Celica GT-S 5S-FE 190k Miles. Project car1992 Toyota Celica GT 5S-FE 170k Miles. Daily driver/beater1999 Toyota Camry LE 5S-FE 216K Miles. RIP You will be missed.*ASECertifiedGeneralManager

Tigawoods

#16

>

QUOTE (RabidTRD @ Oct 23, 2013 - 10:16 AM)

>Camber doesn't wear tires down. Alignment and toe issues is what kills tires.

sorta right/wrong. Technically this is normal wear just localized on the inside tread area


This post has been edited by Tigawoods: Oct 23, 2013 - 9:44 AM

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1995 GT::::Diffusing the Situationエキサイティングカーレーシングチーム!march2010 COTM:6GCfeature2014:january2015-2016-2018 COTM

mkernz22

#17

>

QUOTE (qatar11 @ Oct 23, 2013 - 7:24 AM)

>Also, as a general rule; passenger cars are designed to understeer. It's a safer, "loss of car control" scenario than say... some snappy oversteer.



>

QUOTE (mkernz22 @ Oct 22, 2013 - 7:26 PM)

>about -3 to -3.5 of camber in the rear (didn't plan for that to happen, just did when I installed my coilovers)

Holy crazy tire wear, Batman!

Well I've only had them on for the spring-fall so there really isn't too much odd wear.
It really helps with cornering though because when you turn to either side the tire will press down more evenly on pavement and will become closer to 0 degrees of camber, which makes a better contact to the ground. Where as if you're around 0 to -1 degree of camber, depending on the corner, the wheel might start to positive camber, which could be bad because you run the possibility of losing contact on the inside of the tire.

I've only read up on the whole camber thing a little bit so that's what I took from it so far, hoping to read up more in the near future, but if I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me on it.

qatar11

#18

>

QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Oct 23, 2013 - 10:42 AM)

>>

QUOTE (RabidTRD @ Oct 23, 2013 - 10:16 AM)

>Camber doesn't wear tires down. Alignment and toe issues is what kills tires.

sorta right/wrong. Technically this is normal wear just localized on the inside tread area

Sorry RabidTRD, I cannot agree with this. As a general rule, there is very little downside to dialing in lots of negative camber... other than balancing out tire wear. All alignment decisions will effect the wear of a tire.

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-Mikemjcoury@gmail.comTeam Reynolds StyleCelica BlogCelica WikiIt will take him a moment to realize that he's about to make a 180 degree turn at speed, but you will be ready for it. Brace for the g's, and fast heel-toe work.

czwalga

#19

If your front tires arent sliding you arent understeering. If your rear tires aren't sliding you arent oversteering. You just need to turn the wheel and take better lines.

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-93 Rx7, Turbo 6.1L v8, 725rwhp/760rwtq-95 Celica GT Rally Car - 3sge/AWD-10 F150Always buying stock wheels... PM me if interested in selling.

qatar11

#20

>

QUOTE (czwalga @ Oct 23, 2013 - 1:39 PM)

>If your front tires arent sliding you arent understeering. If your rear tires aren't sliding you arent oversteering. You just need to turn the wheel and take better lines.

Hitting the wall at speed head on = understeer
Hitting the wall at speed ass end first = oversteer

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-Mikemjcoury@gmail.comTeam Reynolds StyleCelica BlogCelica WikiIt will take him a moment to realize that he's about to make a 180 degree turn at speed, but you will be ready for it. Brace for the g's, and fast heel-toe work.

czwalga

#21

>

QUOTE (qatar11 @ Oct 24, 2013 - 8:09 AM)

>>

QUOTE (czwalga @ Oct 23, 2013 - 1:39 PM)

>If your front tires arent sliding you arent understeering. If your rear tires aren't sliding you arent oversteering. You just need to turn the wheel and take better lines.

Hitting the wall at speed head on = understeer
Hitting the wall at speed ass end first = oversteer

Haha yeah. The thing is most people think that their street car is understeering just because it wants to push through the turn. Oh yeah i'm understeering.... really your body just isnt comfortable with the level of speed and sideways G-force.

If you are understeering the absolute best thing you can do is probably a good set of tires. RallyWV i oversteered into the turn anticipating lack of grip. Was correct then proceeded to understeer through the road down over the hillside into the trees.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Oct 24, 2013 - 7:38 AM

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-93 Rx7, Turbo 6.1L v8, 725rwhp/760rwtq-95 Celica GT Rally Car - 3sge/AWD-10 F150Always buying stock wheels... PM me if interested in selling.

malpaso

#22

>

QUOTE (Tigawoods @ Oct 23, 2013 - 4:42 PM)

>sorta right/wrong. Technically this is normal wear just localized on the inside tread area

sorry for off topic: how is that possible even picture like this from your hands looks so great? It must be because of better camera or something

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No more replicas... This is evolution... This isSS-four:)________[Featured Celica of 6gc.net @ 2010]_________

Box

#23

Get a Porsche 911 and do both!

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2001 Miata LS 5-speed

Tigawoods

#24

>

QUOTE (malpaso @ Oct 24, 2013 - 8:33 AM)

>sorry for off topic: how is that possible even picture like this from your hands looks so great? It must be because of better camera or something

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1995 GT::::Diffusing the Situationエキサイティングカーレーシングチーム!march2010 COTM:6GCfeature2014:january2015-2016-2018 COTM