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Rally Gt-Four Appareance - 6G Celicas Forums

Topic #83274 88 posts Started by JohanFer
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QUOTE (SupraKid @ Apr 27, 2012 - 3:38 AM) *
>I feel like every time I enter this thread your avatar is eye raping me.

Haha are you serious? Sorry about that, it is obviously not my intention. biggrin.gif

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QUOTE (JohanFer @ Apr 27, 2012 - 10:14 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (SupraKid @ Apr 27, 2012 - 3:38 AM) *
>I feel like every time I enter this thread your avatar is eye raping me.

Haha are you serious? Sorry about that, it is obviously not my intention. biggrin.gif

Damn.
Ok, so it is time for an update. While I get ready to buy the front conversion, two weeks ago I set to clean the actual seats so I took off the seat covers to see what the actual seats look like. They were very dirty, but in good shape overall. Here are some of the pictures to show how they looked before and after.










I had never seen these seats and although they are not the greatest, I am not disappointed.

I also cleaned the excess dirt and grease off the rims, especially in their inside. I am basically getting them ready for the deep cleansing as the tutorial seen here in this forum. This is the progress.






As you can see, there is a clear coat that is falling apart. I really don't know if it is original or the previous owner added it but I will probably be sanding it off unless anyone can tell me how to remove it and clean just the aluminum alloy. I would appreciate any input on this.

Also, as you guys have much more knowledge than me about this car, could anyone tell me if this gap in the trunk is normal? I noticed more after I reinstalled the seats. It has always been there but it didn't bother me as much as after the re-installation of the seats.

If it is not normal, how do I go about getting rid of it? Do I have to readjust something or is it missing a part? Please let me know.

As for the future of this project, I am almost ready to buy a "front end conversion kit" or the whole "front clip" off eBay. I will not be using the 3S-GTE engine but since I plan to make the conversion from automatic to stick in the future, I would like to see if the rough difference of $ 1,300 is worth all the parts, assuming I can install the 3S-GTE stick transmission into a car with a 5S-FE engine. See, that front clip also has the projector headlights which, if I buy separately, would set me back another $ 500 plus shipping, so I would be getting the engine and transmission for roughly $800 which I can have standing by in case I go crazy and decide to place it in the car way far in the future.

Oh well, this is where I stand and I would like to see if I can get some help from you guys, which I consider experts on the matter. I've been reading a lot in this site and have learned so much, but being as I am, I never take things for granted. I say this because I don't want you to think I am lazy and don't search for information. I might ask something for which I might have a general answer but I ask anyway to make sure. These things are expensive and I must be cautious. For instance, I read somewhere that one can install the 3S-GTE transmission into the 5S-FE engine because they both were S series engine and that they bolt right in; in addition, I read that if one is to do the conversion from an automatic to a stick transmission, one must also change the car's computer to avoid having the check engine light permanently on. Since I think that those computers are engine specific, I don't know what would happen with the check engine light if I combine the 5S engine with the 3S transmission so then I am obligated to ask the question above, but I do read this website so that I bother you as little as possible. Anyway, I hope you guys can help me with this endeavor so that it can go as smooth as possible. I will be greatly indebted to you all.

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For the gap in the trunk, the stock seats should have some slack, kind of like a flap, that have little button tabs which in turn button under the trunk carpet.

And to simply answer the trans question, no. Reason being the clip would include a stock gt-4 trans (e154f) which is AWD and (don't quote me but) pretty sure it wouldn't mate with the 5s.. but a more experienced member will probably chime in and divulge their knowledge

This post has been edited by smkr3w: Jul 11, 2012 - 6:32 AM

6gcHeroes:808hectortimmybatmandiegotigamak
yeah, it's some ype of carpet item that buttons onto the seats...

and no, it wont mate.

I know you said you'd not want to use the 3sgte.... but if you are going to pull the 5s motor out to put in a manual transmission, then you might as well put back a 3sgte with either a manual s54(5sfe trans) or an e153 froma solara or something.... you can use the e154f that will come with the clip, but I believe that you'll need some sort of "cover plate" to cover the rear drive shaft output from the dif or something like that... i believe that conversion had something to do with an mr2 part as well... but I'd have to find it again.

You already have EVERYTHING you need with the clip, intercooler, and pumps, and sensors, and intakes and tubing.... and there are a ton of people on here who have done the wiring etc etc. I'm not much of a fan of boost, but by the time you tear out the 5s motor, you'll have a much better understanding of where stuff is and what people mean by things like the Ea1 plug.

Good luck
The AWD trans CANNOT be easily converted to FWD. The conversion to a manual trans would be easiest/quickest with the usual S54 transmission.

"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
Yea id just find a s54 from a scrap yard an then use what you can from the clip
But if you buy a clip with a 3s SWAP IT IN. Lol what the fun of having a car that looks like a rally racer but has as much power as a moped

95 gt coupe, v6 swap weekend toy99 gt hatch beams swapped wife's94 st hatch my daily driverhttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82235n
Well, I am still to buy either the clip or just the parts for the front conversion and I am trying to go the cheaper way, but If the front clip proved cheaper in the long run, I would wait so I can buy it. Now, if I cannot use that transmission, that means that I will need to still buy the s54 later, proving that buying the clip won't be the best idea unless I can locally sell the engine later and brake even.

Now, does it mean that everyone who installs a 3S-GTE engine, and does not convert to AWD, has to use that "cover plate" for the rear shaft output or use the stock transmission? I mean, it makes sense but it would seem to me that there are a lot of people with those transmissions plied up.

I would love to have the 3S-GTE in my car, but I live in California and I am aware that it is illegal. I know that people still install them and never get caught, but if I am going to be driving around with a car that looks like a rally car, I will be attracting a lot of attention from police; they might as well pull me over and check if the engine is legal. I know they do that so I would not like to take any chances.

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The cover plate is often brought up, but it does not work. The E154F splits power 50/50 to the front and rear wheels, so you've already lost half your power. I can't remember the specifics right now but it seems like it also breaks the trans to only use the front wheels. I'll search and find the specific answer for you in a bit.

Buying the front cut and reselling the 3S-GTE seems like it could be cheaper, if you're willing to try to resell it. The problem comes with shipping or how long you might have it before it sells.

"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
This are the prices:

Front clip: $2,799 and it includes projector lights and front Celica catapillars, plus I might get someone to deliver to be for nominal price.

Front conversion: $1,200 and it is located two miles away from home.
500 projector light
__350 Celica cantapillars
$2,050 total

So this is the situation. Not to mention that I can use other parts from the clip that I haven't considered yet like the parts for the conversion from automatic to manual such as extra pedals and shifter and so forth. I don't know how hard or expensive would be to get them on my own or how difficult would be to sell the engine without these parts.



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I found both of our answers. The E154 CAN be converted to FWD, and if done incorrectly, it burns the center diff up. Here's the link:

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...amp;mode=linear

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QUOTE (LimitedGT4 @ May 17, 2011 - 11:27 AM) *
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QUOTE (Batman722 @ May 17, 2011 - 10:38 AM) *
>ok, some info.
converting the awd tranny to just fwd is not simple.
I would suggest you get a GT (s54) tranny and you need all the GT mounts. The mounts in your clip are for a different series tranny, just put them aside for now. You'll also need the GT axles.
You could use a different tranny (e153) from an MR2 turbo or late 90s Camry/Solara V6, but then you would need a custom axle set up, which would be st185 outers and MR2 turbo inners. Depending on the tranny, the inners may need to be machined to fit correctly. Also, you might want to custom fab a spacer on at least one of the axles, some people have problems without, some don't.

You need a clutch, each tranny uses a different set up.

Do you plan on doing any sort of maintenance on the motor ? like valve cover gasket, thermostat, plugs, wires, cap/rotor, timing belt, water pump, tensioners, seals ? If so, some of the parts are available in the US, some aren't. Decide what you want to do and start sourcing parts.

Doing a rhd conversion would be a little more time consuming. A few have done it, pipes and jmeyer for example, most don't bother.
You could just cut out the firewall of the clip and your car, weld the clip fw into your car and start swapping everything over like the column, rack, all the brake lines, ect. Then doing the interior you would swap over the wiring, dash, heater core, just everything everything from the clip to your car. Swapping just the climate control without everything else is a pain, some have tried and not many have succeded.

What do you plan on for an exhaust ? what size ? where are you gonna get it or have it done ?

IMO the first thing you need is research.
The best way to do a swap is to know (or al least have a very good idea of) what you need, what you need to do, then buying the motor.


Thanks for the advice ive done my reaserch but somethings were still unclear as no one single writeup addresses everythin
As far as the exhaust goes u got a pretty sweet setup but i think ill go for a 3" setup noy sure if the ones being sold for the st205
Are actually any good, anyways the tranny is the thing i cant decide on can someone shed some light on the 3sge tranny ive heard of people doing it
Anyone know how good is it compared to the s54 will i have to get a billion parts to make it work or is it more bolt on
And the reason am interested on using the awd is because i read a writeup that made it seem possible the question would be
Which one would be more cost effective if someone can let me know id appreciate it heres the writeup





from CTech by Torn.


"Im currently converting my AWD tranny that came with the 2nd gen 3sgte I used for my swap.


Converting the AWD to a FWD tranny is not as hard people would think, and when finished, it will be exactly as an MR2 tranny, except with the shifter cables already going in the right direction. Also, with this method, your center differential won't burn since it will be completly removed.


Goodies needed :


-Alltrac tranny.

-GT4 shift cables.

-MR2 turbo differential (open, OEM Toyota VLSD, aftermarket LSD)

-MR2 differential cover.

-Speedometer drive for the differential if it does not come with the diff.

-2 axles seals (optional, but recommended and cheap).

-1 set of alltrac outer axles.

-1 set of inner MR2 axle with passenger axle carrier (get LSD inner axles if going with the OEM Toyota MR2 turbo VLSD unit).

-A puller and access to a press to replace 5th gears on transmission.

-An Alltrac crossmember with the transmission rear mount (or modify your existing one).


I'll try to do a step by step guide (I will really need to post pictures later):


1 - Remove the transfer case by unbolting it from the bellhousing case. Inside this transfer case there is the gear that drives the propeller shaft (that goes to the rear differential). Also there is the center viscous coupling unit. Remove the transfer cases (3 parts) and everything inside. You won't need these anymore.


2 - Open transmission by removing 5th gear case. Remove 5th gears. Remove bellhousing case. Remove shifting forks. Finally you can remove the center/front differential from the bellhousing.


3 - Change drive axle oil seal from the bellhousing if your tranny has high milage (cheap at dealer).


4 - Buy an MR2 differential. I suggest getting an LSD unit, since opening that tranny is a pain and getting LSD with a 3sgte is a must IMHO You either can buy an open MR2 turbo diff, a OEM toyota VLSD diff, or better yet, aftermarket torsen diff. The MR2 differential will work perfectly in the AWD tranny. The bearings will sits nice and thigh.


5 - Remove ring gear from the AWD front/center differential by removing the 16 bolts, and tapping it with a brass hammer (or place a piece of wood and hit it).


6 - Place the ring gear on the MR2 diff, place the 16 bolts.


7 - Order a speedometer drive from Toyota dealer (cost me 80$ can, but I bet you can get a better price than that). Place the speedometer drive on mr2 diff.


8 - Install diff. If your AWD tranny grinds, and you'd like to replace the synchros for not too much, now is a good time to do it.


9 - Re-assemble the tranny: Place the input/output shafts, selecting gear forks, oil cooler lines, bellhousing case, 5th gear, 5th gear cover.


10 - At this point, you'll need the differential cover from the MR2 that will bolt on where you removed the transfer case. You can get this from a toasted MR2 tranny. This cover has the passenger axle seal. Replace it also if worn or old.


11 - Get MR2 turbo inner driveshafts. You need axle with turbo and LSD if using the OEM Toyota VLSD diff. Otherwise, if using open differential or aftermarket LSD (TRD, cusco, etc) use the normal turbo axle. The normal Mr2 turbo non-LSD axle can be modified also to fit the OEM Toyota LSD diff.


12 - You need to make hybrid axles. Use the celica alltrac OUTER axles, and the INNER MR2 axles. The outer axles is those that enters the hub with bearing at the wheels. The inners enters the transmission to plug into the diff. You can separate the outers and inners axles by removing 6 8mm Allenkey bolts.


13 - Install the new alltrac/mr2 hybrid tranny. Use the celica alltrac shifting cables, use either electronic or cable driven speedo by swapping the correct one on tranny. Use 3sgte clutch/flywheel/pressure plate. Place the alltrac/mr2 hybrid axles.


14 - The rear transmission mount will be different. This also happens if you swap the MR2 transmission. You need to get an alltrac crossmember, or modify your existing one (the mount is not at the same place).


15 - Drive

As far as maintenance for the engine not sure i wanna mess with what already works :-/ lol

Any advice is apreciated guys

Ps if some one has a parts list that theyve used and doesnt mind sharing it id appreciate it


That's a whole lot more work than simply grabbing an already FWD trans and going through the auto to manual steps, which will have to be done either way.

"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
Yea that's a lot if work for no real gain

95 gt coupe, v6 swap weekend toy99 gt hatch beams swapped wife's94 st hatch my daily driverhttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82235n
Hey thanks for the information!!!

Oh yes, a lot of work for nothing really, even the power would be gone!!! I think I'll just stick to the 5s and do a manual transmission conversion. Well really have it done to the car as I think that a lot of skill and time is necessary and I think I have none. Even though I consider myself savvy, I think that making the conversion is a job for a professional.

This post has been edited by JohanFer: Jul 11, 2012 - 12:34 PM

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engine swap is your best bet. its feasible anyone trying to learn the basics of how to do so.

Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle partshttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514
I am proud to say that today I finally ordered the parts for the front end conversion out of a WRC GT-Four white celica and the GT-FOUR rear spoiler. biggrin.gif

Here are the pictures














So, what do you guys think? The condition does not seem that bad although I still need to repaint them as my car is ivory and needs to be Super White. I will need to remove that paint that says GT-FOUR off the raiser block. I did not buy the engine.

Now, I've been reading the tutorial on how to do the conversion and I think that I can do it if I did not have to solder any parts. In any case, do you guys recommend that the body shop install them after they paint them separately or should I go ahead and install them and then take the car for some minor body work and painting? I need your help to see what's best.

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I recommend prepping the panels for paint as well as you can, meaning sanding, sanding, and more sanding. Add wet-sanding to that equation too. Then test fit it, bring it to a paint shop of your choice, and voila...

I guess the decision whether to mount it it yourself lies on you.

'97 ST\ Eibach \ KYB \ Kenwood \ Alpine \ Cusco \ OEM+[sold 10/18]'93 MX-5LE
Just an FYI, the auto to manual conversion is not that hard at all. I did it on my car without any prior knowledge, but I also was able to acquire a full parts car so I could swap the manual wiring into my car as well (engine harness, front body harness, and the dash harness).
Congrats! Getting even closer!

2001 Miata LS 5-speed
Even got the fenders! Nice! woot.gif

This post has been edited by richee3: Jul 26, 2012 - 3:41 PM

"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
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QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Jul 26, 2012 - 12:13 PM) *
>I recommend prepping the panels for paint as well as you can, meaning sanding, sanding, and more sanding. Add wet-sanding to that equation too. Then test fit it, bring it to a paint shop of your choice, and voila...

I guess the decision whether to mount it it yourself lies on you.

Good, I've seen that work done. The only thing is that I've almost no spare time to work on it as I am practically working a shift and a half. frown.gif I will however look into how to do it so that when I get the parts see what is needed. Now, the car is pearl color, so all of it will need to be painted, so the shop will probably take care of it. There is some minor body work to be done.

This post has been edited by JohanFer: Jul 27, 2012 - 1:38 AM

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QUOTE (mkernz22 @ Jul 26, 2012 - 12:22 PM) *
>Just an FYI, the auto to manual conversion is not that hard at all. I did it on my car without any prior knowledge, but I also was able to acquire a full parts car so I could swap the manual wiring into my car as well (engine harness, front body harness, and the dash harness).



Haha, I would do it if I had the time, but this is also my only car, so I would be off of it for a while if I do it myself. Agrrrr, I really want to do it, experiment with it, but lack of time is a big issue here.

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>
QUOTE (Box @ Jul 26, 2012 - 12:34 PM) *
>Congrats! Getting even closer!


Yes!! Can't wait to get the parts and be tempted to start to do it even I've no time.

>
QUOTE (richee3 @ Jul 26, 2012 - 4:40 PM) *
>Even got the fenders! Nice! woot.gif


Yes, I didn't want to regret in the future the fact that I didnt get them smile.gif


I do have a question on the installation of the front end in case I find a Saturday to work on the car myself. Is there any soldering to be done at all in the installation of the front bumper, or any of these parts? I think I read somewhere this was the case. 'cause I can't solder at all, not have the equipment. My sis took soldering as an ROP class in high school, but she just said "forget it" I really wish I could do it because I got an estimate for painting the car and do some minor work on the car and once they knew I was getting the front end conversion to a foreign car like the GT-Four, they raised the price considerably. $7,500 for the conversion, using my parts, and the paint. I thought it was too much. I would therefore, just like to take them the car and have them paint it, no questions asked.

So, is there any soldering to be done? it is difficult? Can one take it to a shop where metal is worked upon and have them just do that? Let me know please.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.Visit My Website
The upper support bar for the bumper, if you choose to use it, will need to be spot welded into place. Other members have drilled out the spot welds and bolted it into place, and others who never got the bar have used nuts and bolts to hold the bumper up or made custom brackets.

I guess my point is that welding isn't absolutely necessary but it is optional. And $7,500?!?! Ouch, I definitely wouldn't go back to that body shop...

"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
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QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Jul 26, 2012 - 11:13 AM) *
>I recommend prepping the panels for paint as well as you can, meaning sanding, sanding, and more sanding. Add wet-sanding to that equation too. Then test fit it, bring it to a paint shop of your choice, and voila...

I guess the decision whether to mount it it yourself lies on you.




I wouldnt touch them until you talk to the body shop. A lot will charge extra because if you dont sand uniformily etc. you end up making more work for them.

-93 Rx7, Turbo 6.1L v8, 725rwhp/760rwtq-95 Celica GT Rally Car - 3sge/AWD-10 F150Always buying stock wheels... PM me if interested in selling.
Just take your time with the prep, learn carefully and work slowly. You'll understand more about the process at the end, and you'll have done the bulk of the work, meaning you can spend less to have the professionals paint, which comprises maybe 10% of the whole process. Prepping the surface correctly for paint is the most time-consuming and most important part, so figure about ten hours with sanding blocks for all the panels, at least.

I recommend 3M, grab the rough, medium, and fine.

'97 ST\ Eibach \ KYB \ Kenwood \ Alpine \ Cusco \ OEM+[sold 10/18]'93 MX-5LE
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QUOTE (richee3 @ Jul 11, 2012 - 9:53 AM) *
>The cover plate is often brought up, but it does not work. The E154F splits power 50/50 to the front and rear wheels, so you've already lost half your power. I can't remember the specifics right now but it seems like it also breaks the trans to only use the front wheels. I'll search and find the specific answer for you in a bit.



there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the ST205 transmission. all you need is the MR2 cover plate and a Differential. you can use the OEM one or an aftermarket. Or you can get the 5 speed from a Camry or Solara, its the same thing.

as for engine swap, look into a V6. im not far from you and since im about to finish it, i can help you get yours done

2001 Celica GT-S Turbo1997 Supra TT 6speed1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap1990 Celica All-Trac
I got the parts this morning!!!! I have them in my possession and if I've time this Friday, I will start this afternoon on the conversion. Is there anything I should be careful about???

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I succesfully finished the Front End Conversion!!!!! All seems good now. I did not install the spoiler as the body shop asked me to not do it because they need to solder the middle hole. Pics will come soon as I am exhausted.

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Well, just as I promised here are the pictures. Because I don't want to clog this post with just lots of crazy pictures that might be good for nothing, I've included only a few and then set up a gallery on my website. I hope you find it helpful and/or entertaining. I am open to answer any questions you might have if any.

Here are some pictures:
















If you want to see the full gallery, go to:

GT-Four Front End Conversion Picture Journal

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Looking great man

95 gt coupe, v6 swap weekend toy99 gt hatch beams swapped wife's94 st hatch my daily driverhttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82235n