performance in all categories has decreased.
What have you guys done to remedy this problem?
I can definitely tell I need lowered now more than ever because of the hightened center of gravity.
My tires currently are 215/50/17....hopefully some 215/45s will give me a bit more of my power back.
blah.
Also like to add that it made my steering feel a lot heavier...I know this is just because the wheels are heavier, but it doesn't feel good.
I went from 14" steelies to 17" wheels, so I know what you mean. 215/45/17 tires would probably improve the areas of complaint in all respects.
'97 ST\ Eibach \ KYB \ Kenwood \ Alpine \ Cusco \ OEM+[sold 10/18]'93 MX-5LE
I'd say a smaller tread patch... If you think about it, the contact patch on a 215 is huge. Lower it to a 205 and you should have a better result. You can rock a 205/50 comfortably since it's a balance up from OEM size. I'd never go wider on a tire than OE spec, but if you go taller, always go skinnier. Same rule applies to wider. But, regardless 215 is a large tread.
What rims did you get? Those are OEM SCION TC specs lol.
1994 Toyota Celica GT-S 5S-FE 190k Miles. Project car1992 Toyota Celica GT 5S-FE 170k Miles. Daily driver/beater1999 Toyota Camry LE 5S-FE 216K Miles. RIP You will be missed.*ASECertifiedGeneralManager
changing to a 45 won't make much of a difference. most of the performance loss comes from the weight of the wheels. lightweight and smaller wheels will give you better acceleration, braking, and handling. 17s are mainly just for looks. when i switched to 17s it made a noticeable difference and the car felt a lot slower, but after a while of driving you get used to it.
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hmm why did you get 215/50R17 in the first place? I'm assuming to fill the wheel gap.
get your self some 215/45R17 tires and lowerings springs and you should be set.
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Go back to stock rims, and wrap street semis and run-a-muck!!!!
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When I put 17s on my Celica I didn't notice a single bit of difference in performance. It's more the weight of the wheel than tire spec. It's more rolling mass that your car has to get moving. I'm running a 245/35/19 and 275/30/19 on my Lexus, the performance aspect is phenominal!!! Ride is a little rough due to almost no sidewall though
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QUOTE (PhoenixTech @ Jul 22, 2011 - 8:23 AM)
>When I put 17s on my Celica I didn't notice a single bit of difference in performance. It's more the weight of the wheel than tire spec. It's more rolling mass that your car has to get moving. I'm running a 245/35/19 and 275/30/19 on my Lexus, the performance aspect is phenominal!!! Ride is a little rough due to almost no sidewall though
Throw in a 3S and you'll have a change of heart
Lol, just kidding. I know exactly how you feel. I used to have a staggered set of 18's & the acceleration went downhill, but I got accustomed to it. After a month or so, if you are still bothered by it, switch back to smaller wheels. Just my .02 cents.
-Ryan
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QUOTE (PhoenixTech @ Jul 22, 2011 - 8:23 AM)
>When I put 17s on my Celica I didn't notice a single bit of difference in performance. It's more the weight of the wheel than tire spec. It's more rolling mass that your car has to get moving. I'm running a 245/35/19 and 275/30/19 on my Lexus, the performance aspect is phenominal!!! Ride is a little rough due to almost no sidewall though
Throw in a 3S and you'll have a change of heart
Lol, just kidding. I know exactly how you feel. I used to have a staggered set of 18's & the acceleration went downhill, but I got accustomed to it. After a month or so, if you are still bothered by it, switch back to smaller wheels. Just my .02 cents.
-Ryan
From what I've read the 17" matrix wheels weigh in at around 27lbs for just the wheel. The stock 15"gt wheels are between 16.5-17lbs each. So that's a big difference and your acceleration, handling, braking and gas mileage will suffer. I went with the 17" tC wheels which weigh in at around 21lbs each. Your choices are either live with the wheels you have or swap them out for something lighter.
This post has been edited by bmj67: Jul 23, 2011 - 10:11 PM
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QUOTE (bmj67 @ Jul 22, 2011 - 6:56 PM)
>From what I've read the 17" matrix wheels weigh in at around 27lbs for just the wheel. The stock 15"gt wheels are between 16.5-17lbs each. So that's a big difference and your acceleration, handling, braking and gas mileage will be suffer. I went with the 17" tC wheels which weigh in at around 21lbs each. Your choices are either live with the wheels you have or swap them out for something lighter.
WHOA! 27lbs is a LOT for a 17' wheel. The wheels I'm looking to get are 18's and they weigh in at a little less than 22 lbs. There's your problem. The power from your car is being sucked by the weight of your wheels.
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QUOTE (bmj67 @ Jul 22, 2011 - 6:56 PM)
>From what I've read the 17" matrix wheels weigh in at around 27lbs for just the wheel. The stock 15"gt wheels are between 16.5-17lbs each. So that's a big difference and your acceleration, handling, braking and gas mileage will be suffer. I went with the 17" tC wheels which weigh in at around 21lbs each. Your choices are either live with the wheels you have or swap them out for something lighter.
Whaaaat??? 27lbs each? ****. I may have to find some new wheels...
17 lbs? really? the stock 15" GT alloys?
This post has been edited by stephen_lee: Jul 25, 2011 - 11:57 AM
QUOTE"And, as always, your friendship, help, and dedication to the advancement of Texas Celica dominance is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks bro." -DEATH1994 GT:V6 swap, 5speed E53 W/ LSD, All Power, now RED1995 ST:SOLD @273k miles, Auto, all power, CarPC, White1994 ST:Totaled, 5spd, all power, RedRIP 07/09/09 @ 241,8101994 Lexus LS400:This is my new DD
oops. youre right. but they feel lighter to me...
ive got a set at home without tires, but no scale
QUOTE"And, as always, your friendship, help, and dedication to the advancement of Texas Celica dominance is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks bro." -DEATH1994 GT:V6 swap, 5speed E53 W/ LSD, All Power, now RED1995 ST:SOLD @273k miles, Auto, all power, CarPC, White1994 ST:Totaled, 5spd, all power, RedRIP 07/09/09 @ 241,8101994 Lexus LS400:This is my new DD
yea, how heavy are the 17's you put on it? mine are pretty lightweight and weigh almost the same as the 15 BBS's that came stock on my celi
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My 18" Ce28N weigh in at 6.7kg (14.7lbs)
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regular OZ wheels are about 8 kgs and cast wheels are around 10-12 kilograms..I dont know about you but I think 17" is the best there is in relation to looks/handling/performance when it comes to taking it to the track...i put 225's 17 55 on the gt four and It is a relief to not skid around and get amazing launches...But then again second reviews to come when i finish the beast, still got to put the whole thing together with new suspension and a diff cushion
What I think when you think I care
Well I'm moving tire size down to 215/45/17
Be prepared to continue being disappointed because the weight is still going to be substantial; I'm running 215//45/17 on tC wheels and the combined weight is about 40 pounds at each corner compared to the stock 15's on 205/55/15 weighing about 36lbs.
At this point, knowing what I do now if I had a chance to do it again I'd either choose 16" GT-S rims or pay for very light 17s.
Good luck.
This post has been edited by Keiri: Jul 25, 2011 - 6:42 PM
Has no more Celicas
I have the 17" tC wheels and 225/45r17 general Altimax HP tires. My car feels a lot better over the stock 15" which wheel/tire weighed in at 37lbs. I haven't weighed the wheel/tire combo but I know the tC wheel alone is about 21lbs and if I can go by the manufacturer specs the tire should weight about 20 lbs. Which would mean id be looking at 41-42lbs overall. In your case the wheels are where the majority of the weight will be gained or lost. I don't think just changing tires will give you what you want.
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QUOTE (bmj67 @ Jul 25, 2011 - 9:06 PM)
>I have the 17" tC wheels and 225/45r17 general Altimax HP tires. My car feels a lot better over the stock 15" which wheel/tire weighed in at 37lbs. I haven't weighed the wheel/tire combo but I know the tC wheel alone is about 21lbs and if I can go by the manufacturer specs the tire should weight about 20 lbs. Which would mean id be looking at 41-42lbs overall. In your case the wheels are where the majority of the weight will be gained or lost. I don't think just changing tires will give you what you want.
That's the same brand and make of tire that I'm running but a tad wider. Does it feel more planted at speed than the stocks to you? For me the Altimax HPs grip better wet and dry than the Ecsta ASXs or Yokohama AVID 4S I was running on the stock 15s.
Has no more Celicas
I haven't driven in the wet yet just got them put on Saturday. But so far I love them. They ride really smooth and stick in the turns.
1lbs of rotation mass(wheels) = 10 pounds dead weight
so if u go fron 15lbs rims to 20 lbs rims its like adding 200lbs of sand bags to your car.. or the average weight of one adult
QUOTE"And, as always, your friendship, help, and dedication to the advancement of Texas Celica dominance is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks bro." -DEATH1994 GT:V6 swap, 5speed E53 W/ LSD, All Power, now RED1995 ST:SOLD @273k miles, Auto, all power, CarPC, White1994 ST:Totaled, 5spd, all power, RedRIP 07/09/09 @ 241,8101994 Lexus LS400:This is my new DD
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QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Jul 25, 2011 - 10:12 PM)
>1lbs of rotation mass(wheels) = 10 pounds dead weight
so if u go fron 15lbs rims to 20 lbs rims its like adding 200lbs of sand bags to your car.. or the average weight of one adult
QFT.
And I can really feel it when passing or once I've added another person in the car - acceleration drops and fuel consumption rises. Come winter I'm putting the 15s back on...
Has no more Celicas
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QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Jul 25, 2011 - 10:12 PM)
>1lbs of rotation mass(wheels) = 10 pounds dead weight
so if u go fron 15lbs rims to 20 lbs rims its like adding 200lbs of sand bags to your car.. or the average weight of one adult
That's not 100% true. It depends on where the weight is added from the center axis. You can take wheel A and put a 2lb weight near the center axis and wheel B with 1lb on the outside edge and wheel A will still accelerate faster than wheel B even though it has more weight. Yeah both will accelerate slower than a wheel with no added weight but it won't be like adding 10lbs to every 1lb. At most maybe 2-3lb to 1
true it does take more energy to spin weight further from the center axis.
QUOTE"And, as always, your friendship, help, and dedication to the advancement of Texas Celica dominance is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks bro." -DEATH1994 GT:V6 swap, 5speed E53 W/ LSD, All Power, now RED1995 ST:SOLD @273k miles, Auto, all power, CarPC, White1994 ST:Totaled, 5spd, all power, RedRIP 07/09/09 @ 241,8101994 Lexus LS400:This is my new DD
>
QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Jul 25, 2011 - 10:12 PM)
>1lbs of rotation mass(wheels) = 10 pounds dead weight
so if u go fron 15lbs rims to 20 lbs rims its like adding 200lbs of sand bags to your car.. or the average weight of one adult
Don't buy this for a second.
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QUOTE (bmj67 @ Jul 25, 2011 - 9:30 PM)
>>
QUOTE (stephen_lee @ Jul 25, 2011 - 10:12 PM)
>1lbs of rotation mass(wheels) = 10 pounds dead weight
so if u go fron 15lbs rims to 20 lbs rims its like adding 200lbs of sand bags to your car.. or the average weight of one adult
That's not 100% true. It depends on where the weight is added from the center axis. You can take wheel A and put a 2lb weight near the center axis and wheel B with 1lb on the outside edge and wheel A will still accelerate faster than wheel B even though it has more weight. Yeah both will accelerate slower than a wheel with no added weight but it won't be like adding 10lbs to every 1lb. At most maybe 2-3lb to 1
However, for our purposes the additional mass is almost always at the outer edge. The wheel will have longer spokes, but the majority of the additional metal will be in the barrel, to which the tire mounts. The wider and stiffer tire (more rubber and a denser formulation) comes with a higher weight as well, and this is even further out towards the edge of the rotational mass than the wheel's added weight.
Plus-sizing isn't just a matter of putting on heavier wheel/tire combinations. It's also about moving the weight farther out from the centre of the rotating mass. It's a double-whammy: higher weight, higher leverage. It's the inverse of the same principles which make longer wrenches capable of multiplying the same force. Foot-pounds -- plus sizing increases both sides of that equation.
This post has been edited by Galcobar: Jul 29, 2011 - 1:41 AM
ive had 14" steelies (not on the gt4 obviously) and i couldnt curse them enough, in the wet the car skids, slides, understeers, scares the sh*t out of me...
never weighed my factory gt4 16's , but just in comparison by holding each one, my oz cronos are heavier... didnt notice a difference in performance, but then again ... lol it's no 5sfe under the hood
Mike W1996 Toyota Celica ST205 GT-FOURGT2860RS turbine, TiAL mvr44, JE 86.5φ piston, Clutchmasters FX400, APEX P-FC269awhp / 273ft-lbs
