▼New Questions▼
I have a CAI for my ST, I feel like it gave me a little more power over stock, but it used to hang down on the tranni, and the heat shield use to actually get a little hot, and I assume the air isn't all that cold.
So I moved the piping around and got a little more to bend further. I got it almost to the driver side turn signal. With the invader kit, its a big opening under the turn, and thats right about where it rests.
I dont feel much of a difference from when it was in it original place and now, although it sounds better . I was wondering, do you loose power if you go too far with the CAI piping?
thanks-
Also My air intake sensor (temp sensor?) is wrapped like 75% in electrical tape, never noticed it before. But should I take it off? would this affect anything?




▼Cleaning Air filter question ▼
I know there are K&N cleaner kits.... but I dont think its worth the money to buy since its not really dirty.
I have a pressure washer, so I was wondering can I just lightly wash it, would that get the dirt and particles out?
thanks!

This post has been edited by mgnt232: Jun 16, 2010 - 11:39 AM

dawn dish soap and warm water will do, just hand was it and let it dry for about an hour.

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you need the kit to clean it. Follow the instructions in the kit and it will walk you though how to do it

Bump-New

its not the length, its the number and the angle of bends

Well heres a pic of what it basically is (pic with all but one piece of pipe)
At the end you can see the heat shield. It doesnt bend any more, just goes a little further (about 6-8") and then the filter and heat shield now.

looks like 3inch piping..

i don't think the bends will matter tho..

looks good!

This post has been edited by terbear4god4life: Jun 16, 2010 - 3:53 PM

It is 3" piping, is that too big?
There is only 3 bends any way, including the one into the intake manifold, which is always there
and thanks

no im using 3inch too

it don't matter..i think the larger the pipe makes a deeper tone

This post has been edited by terbear4god4life: Jun 16, 2010 - 5:20 PM

Cool, how do you keep your headers clean? or is that a pic when they were new in your profile? Mine got dirty and oily when I was installing and I dont know what to clean it with.

And me and my friend got bored today and had an experiment... took a while, ill try to get a vid tomorrow its pretty sweet

So we took two little coolers (basically well insulated lunch boxes) and we cut out the ends and taped them together. After a couple trial and errors I got it all cut out right so that the last part of the intake fit in snug and the other end had a large hole for air intake.
Got it surprisingly well insulated and setup, we got real into it lol. Warmed up my car to operating temp, and shut off for the next step.
now we went and got a bunch of ice from my freezer in my basement and filled up the cooler all around the intake with ice cold.....ice started it up, and my RPMS SOARED to like 3.5k for a few seconds then it calmed down a little. Played around revving it up, sounded SO DEEP (not really sure the science behind it, but it sounded awesome)
Ice started to melt so we dumped it out and refilled, and got some well placed screws to hold the little coolers on the splash shield, and went for a test drive.
Now im not sure exactly as to what kind of improvement there was, but it felt like there was, my RPMs were higher than normal and felt like there was a little more power, not to mention the freeeeeezzzzeeeing cold intake sounded awesome. Most of the whole intake piping was cold even after driving around for a few miles. it was pretty cool


Want to experiment with dry ice, but now sure about it
Want to get a vid up, its pretty cool

The reason your rpms increased is simple science colder air is more dense allowing for more intake. Thats also a good way to intake water which has a bad outcome. DO NOT USE DRY ICE!!! Dry ice is solid carbon dioxide (what you exhale), not only is it less dense, but it will make your CEL come on, and damage you car.

You really need to go back to 6th grade science dude

Edit: If you lengthen the pipe you want to decrease the size. If your car intakes 250cfm and your original pipe is 250cfm and you increase the length without decreasing the diameter you will have say a 350cfm pipe causing drag because your intake is at a -100cfm.
cfm= cubic feet per minute
^Thats basic fluid dynamics (thats like 7th grade science)
In conclusion decrease your pipe to a 1 1/2 or 2in pipe, and DO NOT USE DRY ICE!!!

This post has been edited by hatchy_gt-s: Jun 16, 2010 - 10:40 PM

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How does increasing the length change the flow-rate? The only place air is coming into the intake is through the filter, which isn't changing.

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Think more area not flow rate. A pipe can only intake so much the 350cfm rating was for the pipe not the car.

Think of a straw if you increase the diameter w/o decreasing the length you have less pressure same as if you increase the length w/o decreasing the diameter.

This post has been edited by hatchy_gt-s: Jun 16, 2010 - 10:48 PM

omg my heads going too f****** explode.


it don't matter the intake looks good and sounds good who cares about the science

In the end you won't gain much power, but it makes a fun noise when I put my foot down - thats all that matters, right?




If you're going to route your intake like that make sure you go buy an AEM air bypass valve and use it to replace the coupler next to your distributor. That way if the filter gets submerged you don't suck water into the motor.

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actually, the length of a pipe has an influence on power (longer pipe = more pressure loss), although very small compared to angles and bends.



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so what you're recommending is to match the volume of the original pipe with the volume of the piping in the CAI setup?
the only reason one would reduce the pipe diameter is to increase flow velocity which helps reduce heat soak from the engine, but at the cost of pressure loss.

Yeah im more interested in the sound, because I like it.
You dont have to be insulting either lol, saying go back to 6th grade lol, sorry i dont remember or care about middle school-

And i thought about getting the bypass but, the filter was in a riskier place before I moved it, and never got "submerged". Now its in a pretty safe place guarded by the splash shields, bumper, and the all around heat shield of the filter its self. So in order to get it submerged, my whole car would have to start to be under water lol. I dont quite drive through things like that.... no mudding in the celi

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x2. It's not just about pressure washing it. That gunk needs something to break it down, and the cleaner in the K&N kit will do that. Plus, you need to then oil the filter once it's dry (COMPLETELY dry), and the K&N kit also has the oil. Don't be cheap, spend the 10 or 11 bucks it costs and get the kit, it'll last you QUITE a while anyway. I've had my Injen intake on for, IDK, 2 years now? And I've still got the same cleaning kit.

And NEVER wash from the outside in, or you'll just push debris farther into the intake element. K&N the outside and rinse from the inside out.

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Im sorry to say this (Im not referring to you but the statement in general) but when I read this the first thing that popped into my head was The Fast and The Furious.

lol i just caught that

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You dont loose pressure if you lengthen and decrease diameter. If I have something that is 14in long and 3in diameter that gives me 99 cubic inches , and if I extend it to 18in with a diameter of 1 3/4in it gives me 99 cubic inches of volume. So if I have the same volume I have the same amount of pressure.
The equation for Volume is;
Pi x radius squared x hight
or Pi*r2*h
or 3.14*r2*h
The equation for pressure is;
normal force(14.7)/area=pressure
or F/A=P
or for cars 14.7/A=P
The only thing you change when you change length is distance ie the time it takes to reach the car.(I dont think you really want me to get into the math of that to)

This post has been edited by hatchy_gt-s: Jun 17, 2010 - 11:59 PM

good stuff...surface to volume ratios...you want more power...swap to turbo and keep it at the 3" mark

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So again, how does changing the length of the pipe change flow rate or pressure? As you just said, the only thing that changes with length is the time it takes for air entering the filter to reach the throttle body (essentially). Changing the volume of the pipe won't change anything as long as the volume change is due to length and not diameter. As air is used by the engine, the air at the intake end of the pipe will displace the air that was just used due to the fact that a gas will expand to fill its container. Thus, as long as there is always air in the intake pipe (which there is, there's no vacuum there), there will always be the same pressure for any given length of pipe of the same diameter. Volume is entirely unrelated to pressure in this case.

In a closed container, volume and pressure are inversely related, absolutely. However, an intake pipe is not a closed container, one end is open to the atmosphere, the other feeds into the throttle body of the engine. Since this is in the case of a N/A engine, the pressure inside the pipe will always be 1kPa (roughly) no matter what the pipe's volume. The flow rate is entirely related to the diameter of the pipe (for a given pipe with the same gas moving through it, A₁V₁ = A₂V₂), thus changing the diameter of the pipe will surely change the flow rate (the narrowest part of the pipe will dictate the flow rate due to the bottleneck it causes). Also, the flow rate is related to the opening of the pipe. In this case, the opening would be the air filter, which surely causes a bottleneck over having a wide-open end. Changing the length will negligibly affect the flow rate, as once the air is used by the engine, it leaves an empty space which is then filled by more air in the pipe, pushed in by the force of the atmosphere. To prove it, you could take a pump with the inlet connected to a reservoir of a given volume of fluid. You'd get different lengths of the same diameter tubing and time the time it takes for the pump to empty the first reservoir, and what you'll notice is that the time it takes will not change no matter how long the tubing is. The given volume of the fluid divided by the time is the flow rate of the pump (in the units you used before: (cu. ft.)/(min)).

I'm not trying to deny what you're saying, but I just can't wrap my head around it and am debating for the sake of my own curiosity

edit: Where does the 14.7 come from when you use 14.7/A = P? You didn't give units, but I assume you mean 14.7psi. That's entirely a false equation, because psi (lbs./sq. in.) is a unit of pressure, not force. Thus, you'd plug it into F/A=P for P, and not F.

This post has been edited by solidxsnake: Jun 25, 2010 - 10:39 AM

Has anyone ever tried a cowl-induction intake? I've been trying to come up with one but there's just too much stuff in the way and I'm budget limited.

I know people in the Miata community have had great luck with a cowl intake. Sort of like ram air, it pulls air from the high pressure zone in the cowl.

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I've never seen that before, looks really cool. Wonder how it performs.

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Google Randall Intake, it'll come up with all sorts of stuff. It just ran straight into the stock filter box, according to Flyin' Miata's dyno results they got 5hp to the wheels on an all-stock 1.6 motor with that intake, running a 5mph fan blowing air over the car to simulate driving conditions.

I'm working on a design for the Celica. I'm going to take my cowl off later and measure where it would need to be to fit, and make sure it wouldn't sit low enough in the cowl to suck up water. May try to ghetto-rig something up with some materials at work to experiment with later today.

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QUOTE (hatchy_gt-s @ Jun 17, 2010 - 11:58 PM)

>You dont loose pressure if you lengthen and decrease diameter. If I have something that is 14in long and 3in diameter that gives me 99 cubic inches , and if I extend it to 18in with a diameter of 1 3/4in it gives me 99 cubic inches of volume. So if I have the same volume I have the same amount of pressure.
The equation for Volume is;
Pi x radius squared x hight
or Pi*r2*h
or 3.14*r2*h
The equation for pressure is;
normal force(14.7)/area=pressure
or F/A=P
or for cars 14.7/A=P
The only thing you change when you change length is distance ie the time it takes to reach the car.(I dont think you really want me to get into the math of that to)

>>

your equations apply for fixed mass (closed) systems (ie. tanks, piston cylinders, etc.).. but pressure changes in intake systems work differently as there is continuous flow (fixed volume or open systems) so you'd need to use flow energy equations (Darcy-Weisbach equation). more info


>>h = pressure loss, f = friction factor which is a function of the Reynold's number & inner pipe surface roughness & pipe diameter, V = flow velocity, g = gravity, L = Length, D = Diameter>>

reducing the length or increasing the diameter will reduce the pressure loss

btw, it's F/A = P = 14.7 psi, not 14.7/A = P

This post has been edited by azian_advanced: Jun 25, 2010 - 5:58 PM

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Agh, friction, you bitch! That makes a lot more sense, I figured disregarding friction would be acceptable since the losses would be negligible.

Fluid dynamics are not my strongest point.

thats pretty sweet, deff. update us with anything you do