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Beams question - 6G Celicas Forums

Topic #72142 55 posts Started by Ted95
Ted95
#1
hey guys, i was jw is there a difference between red top and black top beams? are they all the same engine with the same specs? is there a certain gen beams thats better then another or is there even different gen beams? lol and would it bult up on a 5s 5speed tranny? im guessing yes
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SwissFerdi
#2
Redtop has VVT-i, and is actually the only BEAMS. The blacktop is just a 3S-GE. The BEAMS is the better engine.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Feb 7, 2010 - 2:22 PM
'97 ST\ Eibach \ KYB \ Kenwood \ Alpine \ Cusco \ OEM+[sold 10/18]'93 MX-5LE
Ted95
#3
oh alright, see i didnt kno that.. and vvti acts as vtec too doesnt it.. like it will kick in in high range rpms?
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Ted95
#4
well wait idk if i believe that, bc i just seen a black top "BEAMS vvti" on ebay.... sooo ya lol idk
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SwissFerdi
#5
Later gen 3S-GE's got VVT-i, but I know for a fact that the only BEAMS engine is the redtop.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Feb 7, 2010 - 2:30 PM
'97 ST\ Eibach \ KYB \ Kenwood \ Alpine \ Cusco \ OEM+[sold 10/18]'93 MX-5LE
Ted95
#6
ahh got ya.. but it does bolt up to a 5s tranny right?
st205 powered ss3 coupe
nics
#7
>
QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Feb 7, 2010 - 11:20 AM) *
>Redtop has VVT-i, and is actually the only BEAMS. The blacktop is just a 3S-GE. The BEAMS is the better engine.


wrong. blacktops are dual vvti.

BEAMS 3sge are made by yamaha, comes with red, black and grey top.

blacktop has a lil more power
God made man....Everything else...Made in China
Ted95
#8
>
QUOTE (nics @ Feb 7, 2010 - 2:47 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Feb 7, 2010 - 11:20 AM) *
>Redtop has VVT-i, and is actually the only BEAMS. The blacktop is just a 3S-GE. The BEAMS is the better engine.


wrong. blacktops are dual vvti.

BEAMS 3sge are made by yamaha, comes with red, black and grey top.

blacktop has a lil more power


see i thougt there was a red and black top beams.. so blacktop has more power??
st205 powered ss3 coupe
nics
#9
here, read through.

http://www.beams-redtop.com/index.htm

it has info on gray and blacktop as well

This post has been edited by nics: Feb 7, 2010 - 2:57 PM
God made man....Everything else...Made in China
Ted95
#10
nice cool, thanks bro
st205 powered ss3 coupe
nics
#11
you're welcome wink.gif
God made man....Everything else...Made in China
SwissFerdi
#12
<--- ownt.

Appreciate the clarification nics.
'97 ST\ Eibach \ KYB \ Kenwood \ Alpine \ Cusco \ OEM+[sold 10/18]'93 MX-5LE
nics
#13
>
QUOTE (SwissFerdi @ Feb 7, 2010 - 12:06 PM) *
><--- ownt.

Appreciate the clarification nics.


nah. i was just trying to give right info tongue.gif

God made man....Everything else...Made in China
BonzaiCelica
#14
guys guys you got it all wrong

Celica ST202 has a 3S-GE Beams Redtop with VVT-i on the intake inlet produces 197 hp at 7,000 rpm and 152 lb ft torque at 6,000 rpm. engine produced in December of 1997.

1998+ Altezza RS200 has a 3S-GE Blacktop with Dual VVT-i on both intake and exhaust inlet. produces 207 hp at 7,600 rpm and 160 lb ft torque at 6.400 rpm.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 7, 2010 - 5:38 PM
Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle partshttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514
nics
#15
^^huh?

let me know what did i say wrong?

This post has been edited by nics: Feb 7, 2010 - 6:42 PM
God made man....Everything else...Made in China
Ted95
#16
>
QUOTE (nics @ Feb 7, 2010 - 6:41 PM) *
>^^huh?

let me know what did i say wrong?


i didnt see anythin wrong with wat u said lol i learned all of that today with all the info u gave me lol
st205 powered ss3 coupe
richee3
#17
>
QUOTE (nics @ Feb 7, 2010 - 7:41 PM) *
>^^huh?

let me know what did i say wrong?


You're wrong! You've got it all wrong! NO NO NO!!!!!

laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Good info. In addition to what has already been said, the Graytop produced similar numbers to the regular ol' non-Beams 3S-GE (~170hp), and was available in the RAV4 and the Caldina.
"Employ your time in improving yourself by other men's writings, so that you shall gain easily what others labored hard for." -Socrates. Even Socrates told us touse the search button!2006 Aston Martin V8 Vantage.1998 Celica GT-BEAMSSwapped.2022 4Runner TRD Off Road Prenium.2021 GMC Sierra AT4.
nics
#18
and gray top comes in auto for rav4 right?
God made man....Everything else...Made in China
Rusty
#19
>
QUOTE
>is there a difference between red top and black top beams?

yes one is for FWD/also found in G-limited MR2's & other models (thats the redtop) one is for RWD (thats the blacktop) & wont fit FWD (there are more differences)

>
QUOTE
>are they all the same engine with the same specs?

they are the same cast, except the blacktop has addtional drilling/ports for dual vvti. see above for specs ^^

>
QUOTE
>is there a certain gen beams thats better then another or is there even different gen beams?

No, the BEAMS engines are consider to be all the same gen (4th Gen 3S-GE), also depends on your setup and how you define 'better'

>
QUOTE
>and would it bult up on a 5s 5speed tranny?

yes, but they came standard with a LSD which you should look into, unless you like torque steer?

to get more information visit peoples beams swap threads or the sticky threads eg 3rd gen 3S-GE & redtop 4th gen 3S-GE info thread

This post has been edited by Rusty: Feb 7, 2010 - 11:24 PM
ST202 SS-II CELICA threadNew Zealand members check inSticky thread's: How to contribute and troubleshoot.
Ted95
#20
is there a aftermarket header for the retop beams? ive searched on the internet all day and all night and cant seem to find anything.. ive seen some "3sge" motors w headers but not BEAMS..
st205 powered ss3 coupe
Tony-B
#21
Aftermarket parts for the red top Beams are hard enough to come by, try rhdjapan, bidjdm, nengun and perfectrun.jp.

Just remember it is an N/A engine, tuning will be expensive.

T
BonzaiCelica
#22
no not all of you. only some nvm sorry for saying that.
Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle partshttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514
Ted95
#23
>
QUOTE (Tony-B @ Feb 8, 2010 - 2:59 PM) *
>Aftermarket parts for the red top Beams are hard enough to come by, try rhdjapan, bidjdm, nengun and perfectrun.jp.

Just remember it is an N/A engine, tuning will be expensive.

T


ya i only want headers for it basically.. the motor is pretty bomb as it is, i would just think with a decent set of headers it would b better lol.. my ebay headers brought my 5s to live a lil bit so i would figure headers would b good on the BEAMS too
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BonzaiCelica
#24
nope no header for the 4th gen redtop beams engine. custom made is the only way!

oh and another question, will the celica with the redtop vs the mr2 g-limited that comes with the redtop as well produce the same amount of hp on the dyno.

I would think that the mr2 might produce a few more hp than the celica?

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 8, 2010 - 11:01 PM
Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle partshttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514
Rusty
#25
>
QUOTE
>oh alright, see i didnt kno that.. and vvti acts as vtec too doesnt it.. like it will kick in in high range rpms?

nope, vvt-i does not act the same way as vtech. info about V systems

>
QUOTE
>is there a aftermarket header for the retop beams? ive searched on the internet all day and all night and cant seem to find anything.. ive seen some "3sge" motors w headers but not BEAMS..

The only one I've seen available was called a "Phoenix's exhaust manifold" and as far as I know it's quite rare.



3S-GE's come with factory toyota extractors/headers which are very good flow well and dont have much restriction, Expect to gain ~12kw with a well thought out exhaust system, the full benefits come from head work & reprogrammable ecu's


>
QUOTE
>oh and another question, will the celica with the redtop vs the mr2 g-limited that comes with the redtop as well produce the same amount of hp on the dyno.

I would think that the mr2 might produce a few more hp than the celica?

IMO they should have the same, however there are a number of factors which could influnance the results, including the accuracy of the dyno.

This post has been edited by Rusty: Feb 9, 2010 - 1:47 AM
ST202 SS-II CELICA threadNew Zealand members check inSticky thread's: How to contribute and troubleshoot.
Edophus
#26
The blacktop beams is the best version of the beams, it has slightly more compression, larger valves and a higher volume oil pump and has a slightly higher redline as stock. But its configured for rwd so the water outlets different as is the headgasket and oilpickup/sump so these would need to be swapped, as would the intake and exhaust manifolds, all for redtop parts. The first problem you'd face putting it in a 6th gen is that the exhaust vvti controller wont clear the engine mount. Its so much extra work to swap in than just a redtop that you'd have to be mad to try it, like me biggrin.gif i'm putting one into a 5th gen, but we dont have the problem of the engine mount clashing tongue.gif and i got my engine really cheap so its not any different to me having bought a redtop by the time i've swapped all the parts over.

This post has been edited by Edophus: Feb 9, 2010 - 11:59 AM
BonzaiCelica
#27
btw for some of you that think that pheonix header is the name brand of the header. Pheonix is a guy on the mr2 forums that had created custome made header as a group buy and they cost everyone around $800. It mainly just for looks id say, might squeeze a few extra hp with a custom made header with no head work done to the engine.

and really you say 20 extra hp with an aftermarket stand alone ecu no way!
Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle partshttp://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514
Ted95
#28
those are some bada$$ lookin headers, whether they r for looks or not they look sick... im just going to do a redtop swap once a get about another ~300 .. i want to do it prob around july i would hope, if i can find one in my price range by then, they arent to bad for prices..

but would i have to change my motor mounts or could i use my 5s motor mounts? IFF i can use my 5s motor mounts ill replace them with new ones, im not to sure if theres a difference or not..(still doing my research on this swap) .. like the gauage cluster PROB gunna need a new one of those that takes me to 7250redline
st205 powered ss3 coupe
njccmd2002
#29
we are running out of reds. they are selling like candy.

better get yours now///
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Ted95
#30
can i use the stock GT 5speed shifter box and conect that to the 3sge shifter cables and tranny? or is there a slight difference?
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