hi guys. I am about to do the 4age swap.

I want to know how many HP does the silver top made? and how many does the black top made?

Your looking at around 120hp at the wheels. Right around the same power that the 5sfe makes.

could have saved yourself the post by google.ca or engine swaps on our forums

160 black top 158 silver top thats BHP, 15% lost for FWHP

This post has been edited by Mstoochn: Jul 7, 2009 - 3:26 PM

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hi guys, I found the info on here http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1311

base one the info, the black top made around 165HP not 130HP. any one with the swap can help me out here?

As any quick search would yield...


Toyota over rated the 20V line - stating that the Silvertop (ST) was 160hp and the Blacktop (BT) was 170.


When I had the yelli celi it was running a ST on BT electronics, Open ITB's and a 2.5" exhaust. It dyno'd 130whp. The shop owner (who specializes in the 4AG platform) told me this was on par, and that a BT swap would only put down 5WHP more. He also said that for modding purposes the ST is far superior due to not having such light, weak internals.

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thanks for the info.

what about the blacktop put out?

anyone?

Blacktop will only put down 5-10 more whp than the Silvertop. Only a few people on here - none of which are regulars- have done the Blacktop swap.

might as well swap a 5sfe. why go low output engine... not worth it and a lot of money!!

The 4age is great motor for modest power. My stock large port makes more power than
my stock 7afe and the power curve is great. People have had decent results in turbo
aplications as well, it depends on how much power you want. Fact is are there is no
replacement for displacement. If you want big power you are going to have to
spend big money to get it from a little engine.

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I think HE is confused. The main difference is compresion ratio, the internals are basicly the same
aside from higher comp pistons in the BT.

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The main difference is Toyota cut down rotational mass to gain more power. The connecting rods in the Blacktop are lighter (weaker) than those in the Silvertop.

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You are correct, the bottom end in the blacktop is lightened.
I would say for modding the gze would be the way to go.

This post has been edited by 97lestyousay: Jul 8, 2009 - 12:40 AM

To appropriately answer...

haters will say the 20V is "underpowered" and only makes marginally more power than the 5SFE and much less torque... but I'll bet those people haven't really seen the race track (not drag strip) nor have they ever driven an n/a horsepower motor before. They all essentially act the same.

That said... the 4AG isn't for everyone... it's not a daily driver sort of engine that makes driving around town in stop/go traffic easier than even the 7AFE... Think about what you're looking for first. If you're just gonna drive normally, but want more power... you should look for something with more torque (4AGZE?)... but if you want a real enthusiast motor that is very tunable... the 20V is great.

As for which engine to choose... Blacktop 20V all the way. I myself had both a silvertop and blacktop powered AE86 at one point or another... and the blacktop makes probably 20 horsepower or so better... not to mention it's MAP sensored which makes it considerably more tunable in stock trim. The silvertop does have larger rods (stronger internals)... but that's insignificant unless you're looking at boost or something. If you're thinking about just a mildly tuned street motor... the 20V is a great platform for that... and more if you do AutoX and stuff too.

Oh yeah... the silvertop may have been overrated at 160 hp (makes closer to 145-150)... but the blacktop certainly is a 160-170 hp engine. There have been AE86 guys who dyno 140 whp, which places the engine in the 160-170 hp range stock... while others do as well as 150 whp piggybacked. At the same time... some ghetto rigged setups do worse.

I would just get the 4agze, save yourself the headache and get a motor that you can actually find parts for at the autoparts store. It least its got some nice HP figures.

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i have always valued your opinion over the years, but why on earth would you be recommending spending money on a swap to only get 140hp from it is beyond me.

Don't mean to steal your tread, but I would like to ask if its nessesary to use the 4A-GZE harness and ECU when doing a 7A-FE -> 4A-GZE engine swap?
Or is it really as simple as its sounds, that you could just chuck it in, and it would fitt perfectly to the mounts and the transmission?
(its a ST200 celica (european)