Not sure if this has already been brought up or not.. However I am bored, and have always thought that this was a good topic to debate on.


Recently I started my freshmen year at college. I'm going to Coastal Carolina University, if anyone lives around the Myrtle Beach area you probably know that nearly are whole football team was suspended due to alcohol related incidents. I have been a "legal" adult for over a year now. I just turned 19 a couple weeks ago. Being away at school my parents and myself both knew I was going to drink. I guess my family is very open and my parents trust me enough not to make any decisions to put myself or others at risk. I have been drinking probably since I was about 16.. Always socially, not by myself or anything like that. So lets say I am.. "Drinking Responsibly"

Now I, more than most probably understand the need for laws. I also understand the need for equality. Although I know no one can ever truly win this argument I believe that I have some good points that I would like to get off my chest..

We can start off with a few simple points. The whole.. "If I'm old enough to die for my country, be convicted for a crime, pay child support etc.. at 18, than why am I not old enough to drink?" This is probably the most influential point anyone can make.. Look if I can go fight a war, but I can't drink a damn beer. Someone has there facts mixed up, because last time I checked fighting a war is much more dangerous than drinking a beer, or even a few beers for that matter.

I know a lot of people think that teenagers are not responsible enough to drink, and do it with a adult manner. WRONG. A lot of people also think that teenagers don't care about drinking and driving. WRONG. The fact of the matter is, I am right in the crowd with these very people.. Of all the things I always see, the one I see most is.. Friends not letting another friend drive home because he's had to much to drink, or giving someone a ride home because you know there is no way you would want them to drive, or someone asking for a ride home because they know there is no way they should be driving.

My final point is simply this.. People are going to drink and drive at any age, 21, 31, 41, 51, 91. It doesn't make a difference. The only thing that makes a difference is if we are properly educated about the risks with drinking and drive. My message is, Stop throwing the issue under the table by saying teens aren't responsible enough. Start by educating people, teaching them that you can drink and still maintain a right state of mind.

I know there will always be people who disagree, and I'm sure there will be many people who do not like my comments, and people who agree with me. I would like to make a change, and although I am only one young person.. We are growing in numbers everyday. Right now politicians may be able to ignore us because we aren't the majority vote, However soon enough our voice will be heard and questions will not be able to be thrown away. One day we will have a common voice as young people, who can make a difference on any situation, not just the drinking age. Thanks for any comments you may have.

This post has been edited by cnelson: Dec 15, 2008 - 4:07 PM

Holland's/Switzerland's system FTW.

Beer/wine = 16
Any other spirits = 18

This post has been edited by RickJamesBish: Dec 15, 2008 - 4:19 PM

Not all of Europe.

18 for all here. I think that's about right....

Yupp... and last time I looked Europe wasn't falling apart due to someone having a beer under the age of 18. Its just a shame because there are such more important things the American government could spend money on, other than fighting off underage drinking.

Most everything is backwards in the US. You can drive at 14 in some areas of the states, but can't drink til 21? So you can operate a heavy motor vehicle capable of killing people but it's illegal to have some beers hmm, right.

Honestly - I think you should be able to drink at 16, drive at 18. This way you learn how to handle alcohol by the time you are driving. At 21, you're 3 years past "adult" and driving is an everyday thing, yet you are new to mind-altering substance. Makes sense.

Good point. But h'm well over 21 so i don't really give a damn.

If this topic comes up to vote though; I'll goto bat for you. Otherwise keep standing outside the gas station and hollar "Hey Mr." when i walk by

Sprynt, that's the system used in Europe as well..can't drive till you're 18, and that's when you start the driving lesson process...license doesn't come till later.

Ha, well after doing some more research.. nine states have tried to pass laws to make the minimum age 18 again. Not sure what nine states those were.

It disgusts me how on the MADD website.. Mothers against drunk driving. They blame parents for the problem. Its not the parents. Its the law. I get so angry when I read up on these types of things. Man it just makes we want to go stick it to the man, however I know that being a child about and cursing everyone off, probably isn't going to get to much done except maybe a couple tickets.

This post has been edited by cnelson: Dec 15, 2008 - 4:30 PM

i respect your opinion but some points.

2 years from now, this wont even matter to you.

but seriously. Drinking, no matter how you see it, is never responsible. whether you are 99 years. Too many health consequences, on it self. End stage liver disease is not fun. billions of dollars of health tax dollars.

In reality the geriatric population is the one that will crowd the stadium seats.

Does it really matter, i dont drink, so really i dont care. but i guess for many its imperative to drink.

Just my .02

wow too many replies.

This post has been edited by njccmd2002: Dec 15, 2008 - 4:32 PM

alcohol is harmful to the body and affects its functions. it can also create long term damage in growing bodies. some people mature at a later age than others. 21 is safer than 18, especially for females. if anyone went to me to complain about drinking age vs. smoking or fighting in the war, i would raise them to 21, not lower drinking age. easy as that.

Respect both your opinions. Forkee you bring up a great point.. But as for smoking goes, thats a whole other topic itself.

>


How is it the law that's the problem, and not the parents? That's totally skewed logic. When I was growing up, the drinking age was still 18 in D.C. - a short half hour drive from where I grew up. So we went to DC to get alcohol. Kids still died in alcohol related accidents, even though they were drinking "legally". It's illegal to own a gun without a permit. So if people get shot and killed in a drive-by, it's the law's fault?

It's the responsibility of parents to teach their kids to have a healthy respect for things that can do harm to themselves or others. This means that it's the responsibility of parents to teach their kids about gun safety, driving safety, and using alcohol responsibly. You say you use it responsibly? Well who do you think you have to thank for that? Who taught you that?

The simple fact is that a good majority of alcohol-related deaths and injuries happen to young people. Not just car accidents, I mean alcohol-related in general. Lots of teenagers drinking too much. So yeah, I'm okay with the law being 21. Did I personally respect or abide by that law? No, I sure as hell didn't. But I'm a lot older than you now and I can easily look back and some of the colossally stupid sh1t I did and say that I'm pretty lucky something bad didn't happen to me. Having that perspective, I can honestly support the law being 21. We have a different culture than in Europe, that's why 18 didn't work for us in the first place.

Oh, and as for the legal age to drive? I also think 16 is too young. I also agree that it's totally hypocritical that you can die for your country and vote but not drink at 18. But that doesn't mean the drinking age should be the thing to change.

If you can buy cigarettes, which are addictive, at 18, there's no reason to not be able to buy alcohol on account of the health concerns.

Also - what happened to freedom? I can understand laws that help protect the public but just because something isn't exactly healthy doesn't mean there should be a law against it. The same thing can be said for McDonalds, microwaves, OTC drugs... cigarettes cause plenty of deaths, but it's still 18.

I hate smoking. HATE it. I can't stand it, and I wish nobody did it; but I can't tell someone they can't smoke.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Dec 15, 2008 - 4:51 PM

>
i think cigarettes are completely stupid. alcohol is pretty bad too though occasionally it can be good for a couple celebrations but i hate dumb drunk bitches.
and i cant see how marijuana is illegal compared to these things.

I think the thing with drinking age is the bar owners doesn't want any 16 years old teeny boppers in their facility...very understandable..lol.

However I think it should be 18 years old or tied with the "independant age" of each locations for the sake of keeping things simple.

Everybody under the age limit drink anyway, so having a law really doesn't change anything...when I was a teen my parents never told me "dont drink, it's the law", they just told me to be responsable and to know the dangers. The law doesn't come into play unless you are dumb enough to be "caught", and if you are responsible, getting caught shouldn't be that bad, at worst (at least around here) the cop will bring you to your parents(or hospital at worst! LOL), unless you got into a battle and did other illegal things.

PS: On another note, I think POT should be made legal and just as available as cigarette..the wide usage and illegality creates waay more problems than if it was legal...if you think on it and compare it to alchohol, it makes no sense why it is illegal (except politics). Heck I know more people that uses pot than tobbaco, and alot of people get criminal records just for smoking a natural plant..!

This post has been edited by Rayme: Dec 15, 2008 - 5:08 PM

>

i have to agree that parents NEED to take responsibility with their kids. My folks never cared that i drank starting at 15 when i came home drunk one night. They told me that if i wanted to drink then i needed to stay home. I could drink all i wanted at my house, i just couldn't leave after i opened my first w/e i was drinking. Same went for my friends. They could come over and get as sh!t faced as they wanted as long as we came up with some loot; and parents gave the "Okay". and if i wanted to go get hammered at my friends place, Same rules applied.

They taught me that after i started drinking, i didn't need to be driving any where, or really going out doing anything. as a result i've never got hit with PI; and usualy leave the bars right before one so that i can stop and pick up another 6 or so (because i really do drink alot) but i wont get HAMMERED in public. Even at a bar, i will not drink so much that i loose my composure. Ever. Thanks to my mamma slaping the sh!t out of me and laying down the law when i was 15. ( it's funny that my mom slaped and lexured, then my dad was pooring me and him a shot of jack )

But MADD does get carried away too.

>Jailbait should not be allowed in such establishments. For that fact of matter; 16 year old kids get WAY wasted WAY fast and do WAY stupid things. That's deff an issue. I see no problem with 18, but 16 is still too immature.

This post has been edited by D-Man: Dec 15, 2008 - 5:07 PM

I agree with keeping them out of bars - but if you can drink at 16 and drive at 18 - they can't get there!

>

Good point about McDonald's, microwaves, OTC drugs, cigarettes...

So really the issue at hand is about personal accountability and responsibility, not about what the law dictates. (which again, in my opinion, falls back on parents and it being their duty to teach their kids these values.)

So when our society can, as a whole, learn to be responsible and actually be accountable, I'm all for the drinking age being 18. I just don't see how changing it at this point in time would change anything.

This post has been edited by GriffGirl: Dec 15, 2008 - 5:16 PM

To put it another way - when does the law being age 21 STOP you from drinking? Has anybody ever said "no thanks that's illegal"? Hell when I went to Oneonta for college orientation I was 17 years old. Look at my pics that I posted, I don't look 26, I barely look 21; so imagine me at 17. We had people waving us into bars. I was drinking in a bar at 17 years old and I was invited in.

I was drinking at 16 at an after-dance party with the girls parents there because they knew it was going to happen and wanted to prevent drunken driving.

You can carry a gun at 18 years old, a GUN... please tell me where the logic behind this all is.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Dec 15, 2008 - 5:22 PM

>

I've been that parent myself—for exactly that reason. Not to necessarily condone it, but knowing it was going to happen anyway, I'd rather be there to make sure no one drives off than turn a blind eye to it and hope for the best. I also was young when I started going to bars. By the time I started actually going to bars and clubs, I'd moved to NYC and I was getting in at 16 easily without ever being carded.

As for the logic behind the gun... well, you can legally carry a gun at 18 but at least you can't legally get drunk while carrying that gun (I'm being facetious) You're right though, there's not a lot of logic in it. But alcohol isn't a right protected by the constitution while carrying a gun is, so I guess that's how that one stacks up.

>
ROFL!!

>

Don't ask that question? Theres no logic in politics!

>Touche...

What the hell were our fore-fathers thinking

I agree on the parent's accountability part- mine do the same.

legal age is 18 for drinking and gambling in australia.

sux its 21 for you guys.

JUST SO ALL THE PARENTS ON HERE ARE AWARE....

Theres a new huge crack down on parents who host, or knowingly allow there children to host parties where people underage kids are drinking. "Parents who host lose the most"

Now even with that being said my parents let me throw parties whenever I really like, as long as whoever drinks stays over. And everyone coming knows this.. But it still makes me nervous, for my 19th birthday I had a HUGE kegger.. Now I know some people slipped out who were drinking. I didn't go running after them, had they been in no condition to drive I would have. But having seen some commercials for "Parents who host lose the most" on T.V, well I won't be throwing any more parties.. I'd rather not have my parents be responsible for 30 other kids, and me at the same time.

So now its to the point where even when you think you are trying to be safe and do the right thing as a parents the government still has a foot in the door saying.. "No, No this is bad".

My real question is, when does it end? And when do we get some kind of freedom? If you let your kid drink in your own home, than so be it. The government should have absolutely no say in if its allowed or not.


ALTHOUGH; Pretty much all my friends are 18. So if they get caught are my parents still at fault? Because the law says there legal, they can make there own decisions and look after themselves.. See this is where things get kind of hairy.
(Assuming my parents didn't buy us the alcohol.)

This post has been edited by cnelson: Dec 15, 2008 - 6:27 PM

But then you can get into a whole other facet of the argument, let's say private (at home) drinking at 18 and publicly at 21.

But that still won't solve anything, it'll just perpetuate the problem to another scale.

>

I've seen tons of ppl going off road, crashing to one another and doing some stupid stuff because they are drunk. The legal age to drive at 14 doesn't mean that they can drive by themself they still need an adult in the car at all times or they will get a hefty fine if caught.

Drinking at any age is not the problem, its what the people do as drunks at the age that results in problems. The law is mearly just a guide line for people to follow so that they don't Hurt themself and others, but if not kept in check or balanced you will pay the price.

I think its ok to drink and get drunk as long as you so do it in your own house!

i say raise the age of smoking and leave it at 21 for drinking. why do kids feel like they should be allowed to drink anyways. you are KIDS until you grow the hell up and try not to be a college student. Seems like all the kids want to do is grow up too fast and use excuses.

Here's my .02

This is a chart of LD50s. The "LD50" is the dose of a substance that will kill a selected species of experimental animal 50% of the time.

All LD50's are normalized to milligrams/Kilogram of animal's body weight.

"Typical Human Dose" info is taken from various sources, including "Burger's Medicinal Chemistry", "Journal of Psychedelic Drugs", "The Merck Manual", "NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances", cigarette packages, No-Doz bottles, etc.

The NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical Substances also lists most published LD50 measurements, but does so uncritically. It's quite useful as a point of reference.




Just compare Psilo, MDMA, THC, and mescaline to that of Caffeine.

Also, for instance, 46 mg/kg of LSD seems very very fatal compared to the other substances, but that's the equivalent of taking 34,500 hits if you are a 165 pound male. (that is based on 100 mic hits)

This is also one of the most common myths that's associated with Marijuana and driving. This is taken from Erowid;

6. Legal marijuana would cause carnage on the highways

Although marijuana, when used to intoxication, does impair
performance in a manner similar to alcohol, actual studies of the
effect of marijuana on the automobile accident rate suggest that it
poses LESS of a hazard than alcohol. When a random sample of fatal
accident victims was studied, it was initially found that marijuana
was associated with RELATIVELY as many accidents as alcohol. In
other words, the number of accident victims intoxicated on
marijuana relative to the number of marijuana users in society gave
a ratio similar to that for accident victims intoxicated on alcohol
relative to the total number of alcohol users. However, a closer
examination of the victims revealed that around 85% of the people
intoxicated on marijuana WERE ALSO INTOXICATED ON ALCOHOL. For
people only intoxicated on marijuana, the rate was much lower than
for alcohol alone. This finding has been supported by other
research using completely different methods. For example, an
economic analysis of the effects of decriminalization on marijuana
usage found that states that had reduced penalties for marijuana
possession experienced a rise in marijuana use and a decline in
alcohol use with the result that fatal highway accidents decreased.
This would suggest that, far from causing "carnage", legal
marijuana might actually save lives.


Along with another misconception, that Marijuana could be lethal in large doses.

12. No one has ever died of a marijuana overdose

This is true. It was put in to see if you are paying
attention. Animal tests have revealed that extremely high doses of
cannabinoids are needed to have lethal effect. This has led
scientists to conclude that the ratio of the amount of cannabinoids
necessary to get a person intoxicated (i.e., stoned) relative to
the amount necessary to kill them is 1 to 40,000. In other words,
to overdose, you would have to consume 40,000 times as much
marijuana as you needed to get stoned. In contrast, the ratio for
alcohol varies between 1 to 4 and 1 to 10. It is easy to see how
upwards of 5000 people die from alcohol overdoses every year and no
one EVER dies of marijuana overdoses.

While I won't argue any points, I'm just going to leave it off here. Honestly consider what you're doing to your body and it's effects.

-TC