>

Ive been thinking that myself for the longest time. Although its unrealistic and highly unlikely that the government would ever do such a thing, if they gave the money they spent bailing out the banks and now the auto industry to the PEOPLE of America versus the CEOs people would in turn use that money to pay off mortgages and perhaps buy new cars, etc. Like a reverse trickle down, if the people who have problems pay off their debts then the banks and economy would be able to steady itself.

>
exactly

I agree and disagree with that statement.
I'm all for it because in the long run smart people will be using it to pay off loans and get out of debt or even put it away for a rainy day. You could tax it at 35% so the initial cost would be less therefore less debt for the country.
I'm against it because it is a very communistic thing to do IMO. Everyone's equal bull****.

I say let the companies die. Harsh? Yes. I worked for a company that went out of business. It sucked. I'm alive though. Companies have layoffs all the time so why should some get special treatment?
I'm still pissed about the wall street bailout. AIG spent how much on their little vacation? BS!!

I lived in the Detroit area for a few years and I met a lot of the people that work there. I will be sad if they lose their jobs but in all honesty, but why should they get special treatment? They all have severance packages anyways. They'll be ok if they are smart. Half the workers at the big 3 are living in the Ghetto as it is because they waste their money on booze and pointless junk.

ok so i have a few things, like before 40 to 45 just above the pov line? fcuk were do you live im moving there lol, im a skilled tradesman and i make about 20 t0 25 g a year if im lucky............iv worked union and non union shops, i like the union ones alot more better money better every thing. but it doesnt make stuff go faster. if any thing it makes it slower and ur making more money, if its non union u have ppl competeing for the job and the work there balls off....i seen it...iv done it

2
bailing these guys out is not gonna do a damn thing i think...hows it gonna make them sell more cars.......and isnt the assembly line like 85 percent robotic any ways? i dont mean to disrespect or any thing but reall how many jobs are on the line here?......... they should suck it up and just down size as much as they can.....apose to bailing them out, we bail them out and down the road it doesnt change any thing and all the ppl and the 85 percent robots dont have jobs, like i said i dont mean to offend but i think it is stupid....ur gov should save ur money

>

i like this ^^^ mainly the last line however i think i should clarify
i was refering to the poverty line with 8 kids living in alaska clicky lol

anyway- i should say to live somewhat comfortable-jester i agree with you if you are working those hrs (7am to 11pm?)and making less than the janitor who prob only works 40 hours a week you should be making more- especially in a management position- but instead of being mad at as spider put it "the little guy" or the union for that matter (b/c they are only there to help the proverbial "little guy" i think we should be more upset at the ceo's and higher ups of the big 3's again unions arent out to kill babies or steal christmas (or hanukkah or kwanzaa or the winter solstice) just give a voice to the guy who works as a number for such a mondo corp.

and really although this is not 100% related- unions also help with immigration b/c rather than have x number of illegal immigrants cutting up my beef in somewheresville texas, i have a unionized butcher man getting paid more and not "robbing the system" bc we are paying undocumented workers- and i totally agree the republican tax ideal is great---its just never applied correctly

and props for reading my internet preaching-thanks : )

doesnt the homemade smiley make you feel like i care more ; )

dam there it is again-must be the holidays

o and side note our favorite brand TOYOTA is only laying off 700 part timers and retraining full time staff for plant shutdowns (different jobs) and keeping 40 hr wk and benefits
yay them!!!!

>

cough jester cough cough

; )

>


you're still in good standing


I'm not gonna give actual number of my 401K, but I'm gonna let you know that I have lost a little over 55%, and that's including my low risk investments which are what's keeping my account positive.

some of the stock have fallen from US$36.90 to US$11.30 in a matter of a year. I have lost both of my last jobs due to companies relocation, so the local job market in NJ is telling me that I got into the wrong field. I still manage to have some decent job offers which I'm considering at the moment, trying to decided which one is gonna move to another state or close a facility faster than the other.

This bailouts are a joke, even if you don't lose your job now you'll lose it and will never be directly benefit from those billions of dollars, unless you're a CEO or related.


I agree with others when they say a company takes the wrong decisions, then it has to deal with the results, it's so easy to play with your money with no regards of the outcome when you can just put your hands in the basket and take money from the people and start right back again.

>
its not the norm to live in alaska with 8 kids so you cant call that the poverty line haha
and no i work 530am till roughly 4pm and 7-11 is the company http://www.7-eleven.com/
and im not blaming just the little guy im blaming the rediculously paid "little guy" and his ceo for bleeding thier company dry to the point where it cant sustain itself in a tough time
unions dont do anything for immigration really it just pushes illegal workers into a different area
and thats the thing the rebulican tax ideal should be applied but like i said there should be like an oversight commity to make sure its being used correctly
as far as the toyota situation goes good for toyota theyre taking the right approach to the situation unfortunatelly people are loosing jobs but the company has to stay afloat and props for not robbing tax payer money doing it
as for the respect for our leader line ... well lets keep this on topic but i will say he has a lot of immoral belifes compared to my views and no experience whatsoever so no i dont like him at all but like i said lets keep the thread on topic
o look a self made smilie :-) hahahaha

at the poverty line talk and income comparison.

I think your country should take the bailout money and offer it as a severance package for the employees.

If the company gets the bailout money, it just means that the in equal distribution of pay will still continue. Where the janitor is making 52k a year, the CEOs and the Board are making probably 10x that. I mean, they stand absolutely nothing to lose, and right now it seems like the poor are bailing out the rich.

Also, in Ford's case. Have you seen the new European Focus compared to the American one, you know the one that's tearing up gravel in WRC? Sell that here. I'm sure they would sell fairly well, I mean the Mazda Axela (Mazda 3) sells well here and its on the same ****ing platform.. Hell its even got a reputation (albiet a small one) as a tuner vehicle. I don't think they could really fix that whole situation, but that was a stupid mistake in my mind to make a separate North American and European model.

Lastly, don't diss unions. If it weren't for them we would still be living in a Dickensian Nightmare, making 5 cents an hour. Sure, the American Auto Unions suck, but there are still places that need to be Unionised. Well auto unions suck when you compare it to the Japanese model of work. If you put people in tight highly specialized work-groups, give them a little bit of agency and have them cross trained (so if they don't feel like doing the same job they did for the past 5 weeks, they can switch up), plus throw in comparable benefits and pay you've got the Japanese model of work. You need fewer workers, however the workers are much happier and best of all, aren't unionised. They may be paid a little less, however they do not have union dues so it almost works out to be the same in the end.

The bailout was approved - Sweden did the same with Saab & Volvo.

If it helps keep Americans employed, as much as I don't like businesses being bailed out, I'm ok.

they call it a bailout but its not. thats my problem with it.

they will just fail later on....call it the BIG 3 Band-aid....

call a spade a spade

>


Hahahahaha you mean they did the same with GM and Ford.
That's rich.

Well - I'm not sure if they mean Saab & Volvo as a whole, or their car manufacturing. Yes Ford owns Volvo car division, but doesn't own the Volvo company. Same with GM. GM owns Saab car division, but Saab is an aerospace provider, which GM doesn't own.

i just don't understand how such large companies with so many sales are failing...
i want to look at their bank accts haha

>

their balance sheet and other financial statements are available to the public

>

We're talking about the car firms though. I also found an article that verifies its the car firms.
"Volvo and Saab had been asking for Swedish state support because of the financial woes of their US owners."

But yeah... Saab aerospace.... Do they even make money?
Volvo Trucks probably is still profitable.

Makes sense - those companies will be sold off anyways. I think both are already on the market.

We'll be seeing Saab and Volvo on the "FEATURED" section of E-Bay in the coming weeks

[/quote]
whatsoever so no i dont like him at all but like i said lets keep the thread on topic
o look a self made smilie :-) hahahaha
[/quote]

o i know im just giving you a hard time...trying to keep it light, we could pull the first ammendment crap but i dont think either of care enough...
i dont like the part about blaming the little guy i think just the big man- if i were the little guy i would be much happier just taking the paycut than losing my job- or maybe hed rather push a broom for toyota
i dunno man i think healthy debate is good but as we learn- trying to change an attitude or behavior is one of the hardest things to change especially over this type of ideal as long as you go away mad at the big guy and not mad at the little guy who is a union member im happy : )
yay for homemade smileys

Need...more...capitalization...and better punctuations...too hard...to read...eyes are cringing....AHHHH!!! No offense, but it looks like incoherent, ramblings of a madman.

>


I disagree about not placing blame on the Janitor who makes 52K. It's like not placing blame on a spoiled bratty child. Sure, the parents are at fault...but does that let the kid off the hook too?

And don't even get me started about "unions". Has anyone stopped to think how much communism and unions have in common?

oh well.
the bill died tonight.

so... no bail out?

yup the bail-out appears to be officualy dead due to a "procedural vote" by the senate (my understanding of it being a senete pre-vote or something) (with exception to weither the W.H. will pull from the TARP's 700b bailout to give em.) I personly think that the govermant should not be responsable for saving failing companies regardless of how large, the people in charge of thies compaines have clearly failed at there jobs dispite there massive paychecks, thus should be fired as anyone else would be. So my opinion is let the companies go under or file ch11 and re-org if posible. That said I do think the govermant has the responsobility to help out the people losing there jobs.

I think what I would do is let the companies die and take the 14b from the TARP and use it to support thoes workers via paying bills and healthcare (figure 14b devided around to about 1m laid off workers is 14k each for 1 year. not the best but IMO much better then giving it to the companies so they can follow in AIG's footsteps and give out huge bonuses to the top exec's so they wont leave. what I dont get is this, thies companies have been dumping massive loads of money to there leaders, why not settle and give them the choice, the top execs/CEO's etc personaly fund the companys bailout and the gov. match what they come up with via paying partial wages/healthcare etc.

my .02 for what its worth.

>
I think that's very well put, but the reality is is that if I were making 52k a year, I wouldn't complain about it, whether I deserved that 52k a year or not. There's the flip side of your statement, which is that the janitor should be supported in the lifestyle to which he's become accustomed. The bailout is his alimony (Of course I say that totally facetiously)

I totally understand the importance and value of unions... especially in the context of the turn of the LAST century when they genuinely represented people who were basically being taken for granted and whose labor was being abused. I can support a union that's sole purpose is to preserve safe and fair working conditions. But this has gotten out of hand. Many people who are union members aren't even doing it by choice. It's institutionalized extortion. Unwilling members are extorted into paying their monthly and annual dues, and corporations are extorted into paying ridiculous wages that are disproportionately higher than the market value of their positions is. And don't go off with that "you're not being forced to, you could just quit your job" crap. That may be true, but it's not realistic for a lot of people, and either way, it's still institutionalized extortion.

yes i know i do this........ alot i really...hate....that...i...do...and...am....working....on..
.it... and im not a madman but i do tend to ramble-my bad

griff- i understand and no i wont go off on the "your not forced to" b/c i do realize that some are forced, and of course its not realistic for people b/c everyone needs a job or at least a source of income; however as you said, they are there to preserve safe FAIR working conditions for workers, which i think is important. That and negotiating health care and what-not, o and equal raises for time spent and worked etc...

o and....



...

So a buddy of mine was telling me today that since Ford didn't get any government money that they're filing lawsuits against any and all websites (and I think companies) that has anything Ford vehicle-related words in their names, ie model names. They're suing for up to $10K for misc sh!t and $5K for copy-right infringement. A forum he frequents (TheRangerStation.com), the admin received a personal letter from Ford saying that he was being sued if he didn't remove all mentions of Ford related items within 10 days. The members in West Virginia or somewhere on the East coast made a stink about it and ended up on the news, so Ford lifted the lawsuit, but there's still a pending lawsuit: the selling of stickers/window decals that says TheRangerStation.com on them which could cost TRS up to $10K. So far Ford has won quite a handful of these lawsuits and are still going. My buddy said the last thing he heard was that the people/company that started the whole "Calvin pissing on the Ford emblem" got attacked and ended up forking over $9.5K to Ford. $5K for copy-right and $4.5K for misc junk.

>

I'm in a electrical union IBEW= International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. All I have to say about that is There suposed to be one of the best unions. But I've paid them $60 a week plus $40 a month for union dues and I'm still laid off . All I got from them is a lousy christmas card and they still expect me to pay my union dues. So F*** the union, they were good back in the day when labor laws and pay were unfair.

Oh God... Where is Lee Iacocca when you need him?

well if ford styled the USDM cars like they do the European versions they prolly sell a lot more cars. for example
http://crazy-cars.net/yonetim/upload/DSCF1206_BUYUK.jpg. this is one bad a$$ focus

This post has been edited by Akirad1: Dec 31, 2008 - 8:01 PM

>

Its honestly NOT about sales.. they SALE vehicles. its the careless spending of thte executives and the low quality/high repair under warranty thats killing them.

Hell, my fiancee's dad has a 2008 F250 that was in the shop for repairs THREE times already. and he just got it in November! total work done was upwards of $18,000. thats honestly pathetic.