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The Future of Engine Swaps - 6G Celicas Forums

Topic #63126 73 posts Started by Dr_Tweak
Dr_Tweak
#1
I was thinking this over today and thought that it would be a cool discussion to post up. I'm getting a little concerned about the future of engine swaps. It seems like Toyota hasn't been building ANYTHING high-performance in the last few years. I love our Celicas, but they're coming up on 10 years old for the newest '99 model now. 2nd gen 3SGTE engines are minimum 15-16 years old...

I've been looking at the newer models trying to think of what the next batch of engine swapping is going to be. The 7th gen Celica is already out of production and hasn't gotten a whole lot of love. Of course the 2ZZ is a common swap but that engine never really took real well. 3SGTE into a 7th gen is something I'd like to do some more of, but still, the 3S is getting older. I guess the tC is the next platform to look at, but what to swap into it??? There's practically nothing out there for decent Toyota engines, the 2AZ only makes 160hp. I've sort of been looking at the 300hp 2GR-FSE but it's scary... lots of modern electronics to work around, immobilizer, etc.

2ZZ in a Yaris might be interesting...

Discuss! smile.gif

-Doc
-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
bccentaur3
#2
YES!!!! 2zz in a YARIS... When the yaris first came out I was thinking of what swaps would be awesome to do and obviously a 2zz in that little thing.
98 Celica gt red- totaled deer94 Celica st black DD (bad weather beater)- totaled deer95 Celica gt silver- chassis sold88 Celica All-Trac (Burned to a crisp)94 Celica gt white (sold)In need of a rust free chassis!!!!
Cuts_the_Pilot
#3
they still made gen4 3s's up untill 2004 or something.

i think more cylinders might be the only go if 2zz is out of the picture.

over here TRD has released supercharged hiluxs and Aurions (like camry but awsomer tongue.gif)
ST205 Group A Rallye GT-Four, #61 of 77............600hp GT3582rGRX133 Toyota Mark X 350s
bccentaur3
#4
WHAT??? Thats awesome. I love the new camrys.
98 Celica gt red- totaled deer94 Celica st black DD (bad weather beater)- totaled deer95 Celica gt silver- chassis sold88 Celica All-Trac (Burned to a crisp)94 Celica gt white (sold)In need of a rust free chassis!!!!
Fastbird
#5
I love the TC.....How big of a bay does it have?? Any chance of a smaller Lex V8 going into one? Or a 3S-GTE (cliche'd I know, but I love the motor).

Toyota may not be doing much for the performance world, but they've nailed down cars you can drive every day and their sales reflect that.
gt_driFFter
#6
TC's just look and feel so much cheaper on the inside than a 6gc
bslik
#7
im sure someones gonna try to put a 2jz into a TC if it hasnt already been done...
DEATH
#8
>
QUOTE (Fastbird @ Oct 30, 2008 - 11:51 PM) *
>I love the TC.....How big of a bay does it have?? Any chance of a smaller Lex V8 going into one?

No way - it's way smaller than ours length wise and not at all setup for a rear drive axle. I've owned all three now - Good idea tho.

>
QUOTE (bslik @ Oct 31, 2008 - 12:22 AM) *
>im sure someones gonna try to put a 2jz into a TC if it hasnt already been done...

See above


Doc - did you ever confirm whether the tC's tranny will accept a S series motor? It makes a certain amount of sense if the camry tranny is the same and it can take a v6 like ours then maybe...

I'd love to see an LS2 swapped 6gc/rear wheel drive sleeper [replying to Fastbird made me think of it tongue.gif ] but man would that be one hell of a project.

This post has been edited by DEATH: Oct 31, 2008 - 1:18 AM
ENGINE: '93 RC 3S-GTE/WRC CT-20b [18-20PSI]PERF: TRD/HKS/ARP/NGK/MSD/ACT/Blitz/STRI/APEX'i/TwosRus/GReddy/Magnaflo/KOYOSUSP: Tein/Bilstein/SusTech/INT: SS-III SEATS/Toyota Hyper SportsEXT: WRC/TRD/404QUOTE (lagos @ Aug 25, 2010 - 10:13 AM)Its a safety feature so that people like you don't end up killing themselves or everyone around them.Slow down Paul Walker.6GC Chat - Go there: [url="http://www.griffgirl.com/forum/chat/index.php[/url]
enderswift
#9
why has toyota allowed itself to stagnate? it seems like the 90's were the heyday of japanese performance rivalry with the 4g63, 3sgte sr20det mazdas twin turbo rotaries and others duking it out for supremacy. Now the majority have plodded on in duller performance attempts while toyota seems to have detached its balls all together. what gives?

ignore teh existance of the nissan gtr. evos and rex's count but the 2000's wont replace the 90's IMO.
blackbullet
#10
I've heard of the TC converted to 4WD and that it is the same body style or chassic as the Toyota Cadalina or something like that. Read it in the magazine. But a Yaris with at 2ZZ i would like to see.
trdproven
#11
Doc, you are damn right about the future of Toyota. I've been pondering about that for a while too. Although there are tight swaps for rear wheel drives, not much for front wheel besides a 4ag. Although Toyota is expected to release two top model sport cars, that does not leave it affordable for many which is the lexus supercar and toyota supra replacement. It would be less of an issue if you had a rear wheel drive toyota, many possible options. There are talks about a new celica with a subaru motor but whats up with that? What do you think about the solara v6 swap?

This post has been edited by trdproven: Oct 31, 2008 - 5:14 AM
94 Celica GT|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tom's|Competition Clutch|5Zigen|Apexi||Laille/Beatrush|Magnecor|Denso|Royal Purple|Optima|PIAA|PW JDM|Megan Racing|Nitto||Work|Greddy|Samco|Project Mu|H&R|Gates|Moog|Rota|Yokohama|Epman|1320|Upgr804 Celica GT|Toyota OEM Japan|Toyota Racing Development|Tein|BC Racing|Greddy|89 Supra (Sold)90 Supra (Sold)
njccmd2002
#12
i think the v6 swaps should be the next future generation of swaps for small cars,
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
RickJamesBish
#13
Well, one thing we can look forward to is the possible coming of a new Toyota sports car, Celica or not. That engine(s) into a 6GC, or a 3S-GE into that machine? biggrin.gif
playr158
#15
need to expand past just motor swaps.....lets do drive train conversions already biggrin.gif
Dr_Tweak
#17
>
QUOTE (Cuts_the_Pilot @ Oct 31, 2008 - 5:41 AM) *
>they still made gen4 3s's up untill 2004 or something.

i think more cylinders might be the only go if 2zz is out of the picture.

over here TRD has released supercharged hiluxs and Aurions (like camry but awsomer tongue.gif)


The 3SGTE was built all the way up till 2007 actually, so yeah, we'll have a fresh supply of 3SGTE engines for a long time. But the problem of passing OBD2 emissions in all vehicles for the last 12 model years still exists.

I think you might be right about the V6 engines... I just wish there was something better out there! smile.gif

>
QUOTE (Fastbird @ Oct 31, 2008 - 5:51 AM) *
>I love the TC.....How big of a bay does it have?? Any chance of a smaller Lex V8 going into one? Or a 3S-GTE (cliche'd I know, but I love the motor).

Toyota may not be doing much for the performance world, but they've nailed down cars you can drive every day and their sales reflect that.


It's a pretty big bay, a 3SGTE would be a fairly simple swap overall, and a 1UZ FWD... yeah, that could be done smile.gif

Oh yeah Toyota is doing fine as a business, I just wish they'd take a little step out of the box for a moment and throw us performance guys something to play with smile.gif

>
QUOTE (DEATH @ Oct 31, 2008 - 7:17 AM) *
>>
QUOTE (Fastbird @ Oct 30, 2008 - 11:51 PM) *
>I love the TC.....How big of a bay does it have?? Any chance of a smaller Lex V8 going into one?

No way - it's way smaller than ours length wise and not at all setup for a rear drive axle. I've owned all three now - Good idea tho.

>
QUOTE (bslik @ Oct 31, 2008 - 12:22 AM) *
>im sure someones gonna try to put a 2jz into a TC if it hasnt already been done...

See above


Doc - did you ever confirm whether the tC's tranny will accept a S series motor? It makes a certain amount of sense if the camry tranny is the same and it can take a v6 like ours then maybe...

I'd love to see an LS2 swapped 6gc/rear wheel drive sleeper [replying to Fastbird made me think of it tongue.gif ] but man would that be one hell of a project.


I'm quite certain that the S-series would bolt up to the tC transmission, yeah.


>
QUOTE (trdproven @ Oct 31, 2008 - 11:13 AM) *
>Doc, you are damn right about the future of Toyota. I've been pondering about that for a while too. Although there are tight swaps for rear wheel drives, not much for front wheel besides a 4ag. Although Toyota is expected to release two top model sport cars, that does not leave it affordable for many which is the lexus supercar and toyota supra replacement. It would be less of an issue if you had a rear wheel drive toyota, many possible options. There are talks about a new celica with a subaru motor but whats up with that? What do you think about the solara v6 swap?


>
QUOTE (Terracar @ Oct 31, 2008 - 4:21 PM) *
>Sorry to burst the bubble, but no new toyota for us.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/28/subaru-...ersion-only-in/


Fine with me, that's not a Toyota anyway. smile.gif And besides, it's not even turbo!

I've been pushing the Solora V6 swap for a few years now... yeah... I need to do one soon.

-Doc
-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
Fastbird
#18
>
QUOTE (DEATH @ Oct 31, 2008 - 1:17 AM) *
>I'd love to see an LS2 swapped 6gc/rear wheel drive sleeper [replying to Fastbird made me think of it tongue.gif ] but man would that be one hell of a project.


That has actually been on my mind also as of late.
playr158
#19
>
QUOTE (Fastbird @ Oct 31, 2008 - 12:54 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (DEATH @ Oct 31, 2008 - 1:17 AM) *
>I'd love to see an LS2 swapped 6gc/rear wheel drive sleeper [replying to Fastbird made me think of it tongue.gif ] but man would that be one hell of a project.


That has actually been on my mind also as of late.


i'd like to keep the motor JDM Blacktop 3sge or standard 3sgte + RWD (either ST205 rear or IS300 rear(dunno how close the IS is))

lets see the docs idea concept plan on this
Dr_Tweak
#20
3SGE Blacktop, with the 6-speed RWD Tranny? Oh helz yeah.

-Doc
-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
njccmd2002
#21
>
QUOTE (Dr_Tweak @ Oct 31, 2008 - 12:01 PM) *
>I've been pushing the Solora V6 swap for a few years now... yeah... I need to do one soon.

-Doc


how much for one OTD. with engine provided?
Learned a lot in 10 years...I hardly log in anymore, last loginToday Sept 6 2019, and I was forced just to clarify a post. LOLIf you PM me and I dont respond, dont fret or cry. Im alive, better post your questions in the thread below, maybe I log back in2grfe Swapped...Why I chose the 2GR, before you ask read here...A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.@llamaraxing in Instagram is the best way to find me. I hardly log here anymore.
brthrurik
#22
BRS Twin-Turbo Tundra Powered RWD xB

"The title says it all for this one. BRS’ Leigh Guarnieri has outdone himself, and that’s saying quite a bit since his turbocharged Honda Fit was a big hit at last year’s SEMA Show. Using mounts provided by K2 Motoring, some ingenuity and a sprinkling of divine inspiration, Guarnieri shoehorned a 4.7-liter Tundra V8 into the diminutive xB. The built V8 is boosted by a Peak Boost GT35-R-based turbo kit that positions the turbos right next to the headlight assemblies. Tuning is handled by an AEM EMS engine management system. The VIP Forged Alloy wheels are temporary as the final products will measure a staggering 20x15 and 20x20 with huge lip. Wilwood six-piston calipers and 15-inch rotors are in charge of halting the humongous Pirelli gumballs. The Scion has been converted to rear-wheel drive with a Ford 9-inch rear-end and custom four-link suspension set-up. Too bad all the Scion could do was sit in Mobil 1’s booth because this monster would be something to see at the strip or on the drift."

this looks like it would be incredibly fun!
GriffGirl
#23
>
QUOTE (gt_driFFter @ Oct 30, 2008 - 10:04 PM) *
>TC's just look and feel so much cheaper on the inside than a 6gc

I totally disagree. Each year the tC is getting nicer and nicer. The 08s are damn sharp looking, I can't wait to see 09s. I don't think they feel cheaper on the inside, either. And they have nice low-end torque biggrin.gif

Anyway it's totally gonna be my next car, so I can start that Blacktop 6 speed swap into my celi tongue.gif

3s-ge blacktop though? I thought the blacktop was 4a-ge. There's a 3s-ge blacktop too? hmm....
Rusty
#24
^ yup 3S-GE VVTi in +98 SS-II/III are single cam advancement, blacktop is duo.


i'd like to see a blacktop 3SGE 6GC celica...plus turbo? biggrin.gif but theres something aboutthe blacktop fitting in there? head swap?
ST202 SS-II CELICA threadNew Zealand members check inSticky thread's: How to contribute and troubleshoot.
block
#25
>
QUOTE (GriffGirl @ Oct 31, 2008 - 3:20 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (gt_driFFter @ Oct 30, 2008 - 10:04 PM) *
>TC's just look and feel so much cheaper on the inside than a 6gc

I totally disagree. Each year the tC is getting nicer and nicer. The 08s are damn sharp looking, I can't wait to see 09s. I don't think they feel cheaper on the inside, either. And they have nice low-end torque


i beg to differ tongue.gif my co-worker has one (2006) and the interior is just plain cheap. just knock on the plastic panel on the door and dash and you'll see why laugh.gif newer cars are made like that to shave off weight, i would think so. otherwise, you can't complain about the exterior. i love the looks of the exterior. the interior of the 6th gen celica was very well laid out and i think it's one of the best interiors i've ever been in a car. i guess everyone has different tastes and views of it but whatever lol.

anyways, back on topic. i used to love toyota. now i hate toyota. i, for one, am glad that i lived through the 90s to see the import super cars battle (supra, 300zx, rx7, mr2, civic si, 240sx, etc etc). now and days, there aren't much to see. the new models are so bland, especially the new venza. it's just plain ugly. only new toyota i would get is the camry se. otherwise im crawling to nissan & honda. this is the reason why i'm going to buy myself an EM1. there are endless mods and engine swaps. sorry toyota but you suck! mad.gif

This post has been edited by block: Oct 31, 2008 - 4:28 PM
GriffGirl
#26
When those Toyotas outlive all the others, you won't be saying they suck! LOL j/p

As for the blacktop - ah, of course, BEAMS blacktop. I knew that, I don't know where my head was. I guess I'm so used to hearing it referred to specifically as a BEAMS blacktop that the actual engine code threw me off. D'oh!

You know, I think that the way automotive engineering is going with everything being so sensor-reliant, it will make swaps much more difficult and is likely to narrow the range of swap-ability, within the confines of mechanical ability at least. Now if there's someone who can hack ECU software and start mating up things differently so they can work together, that might be a different story. But there will just be different challenges now. Our cars will become more and more rare, and while our cars and available swap engines age, the swaps will soon enough be left to those who really know what they're doing, as the engines will have to be rebuilt/refurbished basically to bring them up to like-new. Maybe it'll separate the "men from the boys" as they say.
Kwanza26
#27
>
QUOTE (block @ Oct 31, 2008 - 10:26 PM) *
>i beg to differ tongue.gif my co-worker has one (2006) and the interior is just plain cheap. just knock on the plastic panel on the door and dash and you'll see why laugh.gif newer cars are made like that to shave off weight, i would think so. otherwise, you can't complain about the exterior. i love the looks of the exterior. the interior of the 6th gen celica was very well laid out and i think it's one of the best interiors i've ever been in a car. i guess everyone has different tastes and views of it but whatever lol.

And you are CLEARLY being objective! tongue.gif Unfortunately pretty much all of the newer Toyotas are like that.

Anyway, as far as new engines to swap... NONE. Toyota doesn't make money from build sporty cars anymore. They make more money building a few engines and putting them in different packages. But Honda K20s are still nice, the older toyota motors are still cool, etc. There isn't any new Toyota vehicle that I would want to swap in a more performance oriented motor anyway... although a 2ZZ Yaris sedan would be fun.
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Dr_Tweak
#28
>
QUOTE (njccmd2002 @ Oct 31, 2008 - 8:30 PM) *
>>
QUOTE (Dr_Tweak @ Oct 31, 2008 - 12:01 PM) *
>I've been pushing the Solora V6 swap for a few years now... yeah... I need to do one soon.

-Doc


how much for one OTD. with engine provided?


Looking at around $6500 - $7500 or so.

>
QUOTE (GriffGirl @ Oct 31, 2008 - 11:51 PM) *
>You know, I think that the way automotive engineering is going with everything being so sensor-reliant, it will make swaps much more difficult and is likely to narrow the range of swap-ability, within the confines of mechanical ability at least. Now if there's someone who can hack ECU software and start mating up things differently so they can work together, that might be a different story. But there will just be different challenges now. Our cars will become more and more rare, and while our cars and available swap engines age, the swaps will soon enough be left to those who really know what they're doing, as the engines will have to be rebuilt/refurbished basically to bring them up to like-new. Maybe it'll separate the "men from the boys" as they say.


You're absolutely right... CAN BUS controlled systems are in pretty much everything now... which makes swapping very, very difficult.

-Doc
-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
block
#29
couldn't you put a b-series or something in a celica? i mean those motors are small, light, and can be mod to go super fast because they respond well to little mods/turbo. forget the "honda" name, think of possibilities lol wink.gif biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by block: Oct 31, 2008 - 11:28 PM
Dr_Tweak
#30
>
QUOTE (block @ Nov 1, 2008 - 5:28 AM) *
>couldn't you put a b-series or something in a celica? i mean those motors are small, light, and can be mod to go super fast because they respond well to little mods/turbo. forget the "honda" name, think of possibilities lol wink.gif biggrin.gif


Ban him.
-Dr Tweak, 6GC's resident engine swap wiring expert extraordinaireClick here to see my swapsdrtweak@phoenixtuning.com
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