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Amen

Matt, i'm sorry for filling up your thread with my thoughts and ideals, (especialy when they're the same as your's ) But you already knew i would. I love my daughter as much as you love your boys; and while you worked with this guy; i've been to your shop, i've been in the welding booth when people were welding, i could have walked right past this guy w/o ever knowing it. It just hits too close to home. I know you're feeling alot like that right now, Had you known before... Damn dude. sucks.

Its a mind trip, and i'm trying to step off of my soap box, because i'm trembling with anger; just un-intentfuly imagining the pain that the poor girl faced... It fills me with that same anger and rage as i know you're filled with as well. Damn it bro, it's just so fcuked up.

IDK what else to say...

He was arrested though?

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Please don't confuse my opinion of the death penalty as me saying that the sex offender you describe in your original post shouldn’t have consequences- I clearly laid out in my original post that I was separating the two. I still feel that lifetime incarceration achieves the same goal you are looking for. That said, I strongly believe the value of human life should NEVER be taken for granted. Hitler successfully sold to the German people that exact concept, and millions of "less valuable" human beings were exterminated in the process. The de-humanization of people is a very slippery slope, because who gets to decide who's life is more important? First murderers and sex offenders deserve to die, then armed robbers, then adulterers, then ...? Now, I'm obviously using drastic examples, but I feel it highlights the problem with setting a value to human life, or rights, for that matter. It's too much like playing God for me... I want to clarify that I don't think you shouldn’t feel the way you do, I really enjoy open dialog about people's thoughts like this. We can all only grow from taking the time to see other's point of view, and I hope it lets you vent off in a positive way

D-man trust me - I'm glad you posted what you did. After having to listen to "enablers" opinions all day at work it's nice to hear someone with a similar opnion. Most of the people here at work feel the same way as we do but there are a couple who think nothing of having worked next to him for 10 years and think maybe he just should have had a few more years in prison - he was in for over 20 years for what he did the first time - if that didn't rehabilitate him nothing will. If that's not positive proof the state should have killed him years ago I don't know what is.
Oh and BTW - You stood right next to the guy. Poor little girl - it would be worth my sentence if I had known and "welded" his head to the table of one of the robots. Fcukin bastard.
NOT HAVING A DEATH PENALTY FOR HIS CRIME ALLOWED THIS MAN TO OFFEND AGAIN AND RUIN A CHILD"S LIFE - A BABY!!! if you can't see this than you are part of the problem.
I gotta stop talking - you guys continue.

This post has been edited by DEATH: Jul 18, 2008 - 2:26 PM

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I agree with this 100%

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For Real! I dont understand (though i dont mind keeping an adult attitude and talking about this maturely) But (rather) it's hard for me to understand how some of our members can bluntly see this man blended in with your crew, didnt' stick out in the least, but say that he's mental and should have been watched? then he's done 20 years already, and the first opportunity he gets he does it again? What part of "too far gone" are people not comprehending? (Again, i mean no offense to anyone, this is just my .02 cents) but a 2 year old child. Common.

I stood right next to him, i had no idea. Damn, they should be required to wear shirts or something. Bright ass neon shirts. Remember when you were giving me that tour of your shop? it would have been perfect should you have said; "And this is our welding room, We've got Plasma, Mig, Tig, a variety of cutting torches, and a Child Molester that you can feel free to test any of the equipment on. Here, Let me show you how to weld a 4 foot long stainless steal bar into an ear canal. After that, We can test out my new design for gothic black spiked steel toe boots on his Sack. i gotta do a double studdy before i can put them into production." And i would have helped you. Had everyone known that he was a child molester, and he was beaten daily for being a fcukin perv, he would have been scared of that child. NOT sexually aroused by her.

If we cant have a DEATH sentence, can we atleast have a law that makes Pedo's stand out like a glowstick in the dark?

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i have to agree with this. (again, we mean no direct offense to anyone)

This post has been edited by D-Man: Jul 18, 2008 - 2:53 PM

As a parent, if anyone ever did anything to my children I wouldnt JUST kill them. Murder is just simply too fast of a punishment for these sick #%#'s. Torture IMO would be in order first.

Right and you should be able to get away with it but obviously we can't empower our judiscial system to do that. I'm with you tho for sure.
I still wanna know why the baby was with this man in the first place. Parents need to be brought up on charges too most likely.

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Who says that was a joke???
You guys needs to think of the bigger picture, that comment was no where near a joke. Maybe in the feature we will invent time-machine and wouldnt that be great for crimes like this??

Jumped into conclusion way too early.

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You know, it was probably a relative. Anyway, how'd the guy get caught? Maybe the parents didn't know about the guy, and were the ones to catch him? Obviously someone else caught him. IDK. Anyway people like that just deserve to rot and suffer. Death is too easy.

I am the father of 4 girls. 16-15-9-8, and I pop blood vessels at the thought of something like that. I love children they a breathe of fresh air when things seem tuff. I watch mine and remember simpler times other than bills, deadlines etc... When someone commits an act like that to a child they in a sense still there life, all innocents is gone replaced with turmoil and confusion. Thats worst than death cause they have to live with it grow up with it. The fact that some low life sick individual has stolen from them it is not obtainable it's gone (innocence) I personally feel that death is to good and life in prison is no better, cause with life in prison thats just another mouth for society to feed with tax money and our future social security witch is a joke. I vote remove there tools with a rusty knife and drop them off on and island some where but seriously, what do you do other than death? See to me a pedophile is not curable, there is no treatment. I remember when they would put dogs to sleep when they bite people cause they had the taste of human blood (what I was told anyway) well its no diffrent to me I think that after someone who's sick enough to consider it, follows through with it they are done lost. So I have to agree with death. I watch my daughter's like a Hawk, because I care. If this did ever happen to one of them I will start out with the individuals family and work my way to him but they would not be dead just suffuring from loss of many body parts and close family members.

First: i think that we can all agree that there is no gray area with this issue. Its wrong on a leave that cant be rated. Its the worse thing that anyone can do to someone. I have known many people that have been molested and some are still very close to me.

As far as killing these people for what they have done, here is what i have to say.

You can say that these people are ill and need help, NO. This is not the case. What is wrong with these people is in the brain. They may be able to be taught to ignore the urges to molest but thats it.

(please do not take this the wrong way) Gay people are attracted to the same sex. This is not a learned feeling. This is what their brain is telling them is attractive. This can not be cured. The same can be said about Molesters. Its in their brain. It can not be cured.


So. Should we kill someone for not being able to control themselves?

Murder is a choice. A person will choose to kill someone. A person will choose to drive home drunk and kill a person on a side walk. Although all of these choices can be altered by beer and emotion, they are still choices. Molesters do not choose to molest, its right to them. Its ok, they do not understand why its wrong other then the law says so. and they continue to do it because, to them, its like telling a Gay person to be attracted to the right sex, or telling a strait person to be attracted to the same sex. It cant happen. Therefore, molesters will forever be this way.

So. Back to the question. If they can not control themselves they are a danger to society, however, how can you kill someone for a defect in the brain? that like kill Down syndrome kids because they cant function in the world. Or, again, killing gays for being attracted to the wrong sex. If a person murders your family because they wanted the car they were driving and they were in the way, then thats a clear thinking person who made the choice to kill, this person should be shot on site because he knew what he was doing. A molester believes what he is doing is right and should be legal because they dont understand why its wrong. So if they dont understand, why should they die for that?

Now. Thats how i feel about it. But because of how hanass the crime is, would i kill that person for molesting a child. Yes. because i cant get past the fact that its a child. That fact in of itself takes how i feel about this issue, logic and anything other then rage out of my mind. Is this right? No. But i cant help it, and im sure the rest of you can help it either. You dont want to think this way because You dont want to kill someone who cant stop themselves, but you dont want them on the streets with the rest of the world to do something this horrible. But if we realize that these people cant be helped then that only leaves us with Kill them or lock them up forever or find a way to hack the brain and change this problem in their brain so they dont think this way. Well i dont think killing them is the right way to go. To me, that make you worse then them, now you are killing someone that has no control over their actions and doesnt understand why your killing them, what good does that do other then revenge? None. Lock them up? Well that could work but only if we understand that they cant be cured and they must stay their because they will forever be a risk. Fix the Brain? Well when we can do that, then this will never be an issue again will it?

I guess what im saying is just that Molesting is a illness. It SHOULD be treated that way, and realized that there is no fixing it. and due to the dangerous nature of this illness it should bethere needs to be a better way to handle this issue then kill them, or try to fix them, cuz killing someone for not being able to see why what they are doing is wrong just doesnt seem right to me, and since there is no way to fix them, something else has to be done. My point is i just dont think you can place the death penalty on someone who is un aware of what the problem is.

This post has been edited by Havok1997GT: Jul 18, 2008 - 8:11 PM

I vote for this thread to be shut down. Not because I feel that it is inappropriate for a car enthusiast website (which it kinda is) but it is a disturbing topic to discuss about no matter what your views/thoughts are because you're basically either discussing about child molesters/pedophiles or appropriate punishments for them (killing them in inhuman ways). This thread is just DEPRESSING or INFURIATING. So there really isn't at good that can be said about this topic...only more hate, anger, disgust and sadness.

So please, let's just drop the subject?

EDIT* Comments about ants, honey, torturing people to death, maiming and hurting the innocent relatives of criminals...hmm...not very mature if you ask me. But I guess comments like these can slide (not deleted) so long as they are directed against criminals and the like?

And yes, I know I don't have to read everything that is shoved in front of my face (which is why I resisted reading this thread until it reached 3 pages). And while most of the comments are legitimate, this topic is becoming more polarized and emotional. It started as a semi-vent about a coworker's criminal background and has now become a debate about the death penalty, the legitimacy of mental illnesses, and what people would do to these "sick" individuals as retribution if they had the unfortunate chance to extract revenge. This is where I feel that the thread is becoming inappropriate (which apparently is not what the moderators feel).

This post has been edited by CAMAricer: Jul 20, 2008 - 2:23 AM

A common misconception that people seem to come across is that they have to read everything they see.

This thread has been very mature and kept under control. It's nice to finally see people expressing their opinions without getting bashed for them. I dont see any reason this should be closed, i mean, if someone doesnt like it, they surely dont have to click on the topic.

I heard a story a while back about a 13yr old girl who got "raped' when she was younger and the guy went to jail over it, then later got "raped" again and again the guy went to jail, although I dont know the full story they ended up catching the girl and finding out that she was the one posing to be older (although the guy should have known better) it was concenting and she was just getting back a men in general or something (daddy issues.) either way they were innocent of the rape charge as it was concentual so I worry that head they gotton the death sentince then 2 technicly innocent guys would have been killed.

as for stuff like this were it involved a 2 yr old, then I have no reservations about saying the guy deserves death, would be more revengefull to make him live his life out in jail witch although deserved would only cost the citisens more money.

(IMO) Most cases like this is a result of the person commiting the crime having been the victom of it themselfes, thus its a chain, killing them off although in that sence very sad would really cut off the chain and resolve the issue (best case senario.)

Man this is scary. I wouldn't know what I would do if I were in your shoes, and I don't have kids. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like for you all who have kids. I just know it is a scary world out there, and it is sad and sick.

My friend (not a sex offender) once tried to have his way with a girl his age. My age too mind you. No sexual act was conducted, but she really got emotionally upset about it. Regardless of him being my friend since I was 5 years old, it still didn't prevent me from whooping his ass in my old high school's stair well. Doesn't matter of age, of the offender or the victim, that's just not tolerable to me. If I was in Death's situation, I'd be feeling like s*** too. I wouldn't know what to do or how to compose myself. Kudos on not finding the bastard and chopping his b***s off Death!

This post has been edited by shortydragon: Jul 25, 2008 - 2:17 AM