Good evening everyone,

Every 6 months or so we get complaints about how we (The Moderators) moderate this website. Every time this issue is brought up it ends up a 10- 15 page screaming match followed by the topic being closed. I figured this would be the perfect time to start a new topic to change the tone of the previous thread. It ended with a hail storm of pointless comments. I did not want to jump right back into that part of the conversation.

That being said, this is now my topic. I am setting the mood of conversation and I expect it to carry on this way from start to end. If you cannot express you opinions in a mature/adult manner, your opinions are not wanted in this thread. Post will be removed from this thread, members will be warned.

On to the topic.

I read the OP's complaints about the moderating staff for this website. I think its great that people voice their opinions, more members should do it. We cannot learn or grow as a community if nobody raises an issue. We also cannot complain about so said problems without understanding how the management of this website works. Bringing up issues with out throughly thinking about them is waisting everyone's time.

So let's go over a few of these issues:

• Issue One: A recent For Sale thread was brought up in the discussion. A seemingly innocent thread to everyone. A guy wants to sell some lights, whats the problem ? Other members sell lights left and right, as they should. Everyone should have the opportunity. to sell 6th generation related items on this website.
  
  The main issue with this thread was, the member signed up that day and immediately started a For Sale thread. In our book thats not acceptable. There have been many instances that members have been scammed, ripped off, taken advantage of. This is unacceptable with the moderating team. So we take certain precautions to make sure that this doesn't happen. Like making sure we have reputable sellers on this website. We have rules that we follow that are not for the public to see.
  
  The reason for with holding some of the rules, is so scammers don't catch on to them.
  
  Below is a link to issue one
  HID For Sale Thread
  
  
• Issue Two: Another for sale thread has been brought up in this conversation. A member is thinking about selling his car. But its obvious to the people that know him that he is not thinking clearly. So other members that know him personally turn him in the right direction, to keep his car. Presure2 knows this member on a personal level. so he closed the thread. After the fact presure2 spoke with Daftboy on the phone and cleared his head right up.
  
  If this was such a big issue don't you think Daftboy would have made a complaint ? He was overwhelmed by the fact that all of his colleagues rushed to tell him he was making a mistake. Believe me I know, I wanted to sell my car at one point as well. I got kick in the ass for it, I moved on
  
  
  My question is why do you feel that it is your place to question something as insignificant as this issue ? Its not your place. It was something that involved Presure2 & Daftboy, they resolved the issue and moved on. Please do not involve yourself in other member's matters.
  
  A link to Issue Two below
  For Sale thread about a car
  
  
• Issue Three: The third issue to be brought up was topic closure, and or "smart comments", or "getting in the last word" before the close. I have some news for you we are moderators, our job is to close threads. Now, before you get all hot and bothered and hit the reply button, read what I type. Presure2 & myself have been moderating this website for a few years now. Let me emphasize the word YEARS. We have been doing this under the watchful eye of Coomer. We do not, I repeat do not get paid for this. Yep, we volunteer. In the beginning of our moderating tenure, we would remove pointless posts, warn members, let threads carry on into a flame war. This brings me lets say a year back, when we (the moderating team) were brought up because we would warn people that would cross the line. Members would complain about warnings, cry foul play. When in reality it was the people constantly disrupting the website that were complaining. So, we started to warn people less, members still were issued warning but not as frequent. After a more relaxed approach by the moderating staff, more pointless conversations spilled over from Off Topic into the other sections. This was not going to fly with us.
  
  So we started cleaning threads and trying to continue with the discussion. After going into the same thread 5 or 6 times deleting posts it gets old fast. Whats the next best thing ? Lock the thread. Nobody gets a warning that they will complain about and maybe they'll think about why the thread was locked, and try to be more mature the next time around. In the begining we gave detailed reasons for thread closings. They would always fall on deaf ears. So we stopped. Or sometimes our own frustration make it out in to the last post. This thankless job ain't easy, but we have excellent help from the members that use the "report a post button". I am happy every time you guys use this button.
  
  
• In closing:
  The moderators are die hard Celica enthusiasts, we don't like to see this place become a clubhouse. We would like to keep this the number one 6th Generation Celica resource on the internet. It has been that way because of our senor members and a strong managment team. We have a huge data base of knowledge, Highly experienced members, a online community that does not exsist on any other website. If we allow bickering or pointless posts to make their way into the main forum, we are not doing our job.

Remember, we are all here to share our experiences and love for a certain vehicle. It is this car that brings us all together. We would like to keep it that way.

If you'd like to have conversations that do not include the 6th gen, or want somewhere to goof off. Try AOL Instant Messenger, or Myspace. Goofing off will not be tolerated on this website any longer. We will be warning members again, we will continue to close threads. Please give Off Topic a break.


Thank you for reading my very long post. Remember, This is now my thread if you cannot act in a mature manner I don't want you in this thread. This goes for everyone. Now, if you have something you would like to add please feel free to do so.

Good evening,
DEF

i like the way you handled this it really is very mature unlike the last topic....
i respect you guys as moderators you guys do a great job
through my experiences ive had a couple threads deleted nothing major i just ask if your goin to close my thread or dont like what im doing just let me know and i will gladly stop im not here to desrespect anyone or abuse any rules on this site
this site has helped my alot in my experiences with my car and im thankful to have this site and the people on it
thanks guys keep up the good work
wes

Agreed and Amen. This is mainly the reason that I have not been online very much at all this past year, which is big, because there was a point where i was one of the main posters. This site does need a change.

Dear mr. Defgeph...with all due respect sir....i believe the problems we have here arose in a few closure of threads recently involving manny and eric...and another guy who was trying to sell off some HID kits he had.....after which he kept bumping it up and pressure told him to stop....which is understandable......but then when he closed it because he bumped it up again is a little much...espically with a smart remark at the end.....or like eric when he told him he "wasnt selling"...thats just crazy...even if you do know the guy personaly i wouldnt have the guts to tell my friend what he was and wasnt doin with his car.....aside from that i think that everyone else has their panties in a bunch is because of the smart comments at the end of threads...im sure manny is a great guy...and i do look forward to meeting him sometime...maybe in the ECM commin up...but i just think that commer wouldnt appreciate a few things that have been goin on.

i just want to say i am glad this site is run the way it is. i'm not kissing anyones @$$ in saying so either.
i think that there have been several threads opened that are completely useless that i am surprised are still opened. i have seen other threads that were closed that left me scratching my head thinking WTF???
i have had to ask manny to help me with a purchase that went horribly wrong and he was more than happy to help even though that's not his job and we got everything resolved in a quick manner.
i have looked at other forums for info about my car and i can't find anything useful because all i could find was a bunch of random info on nothing because they just don't care.

on that note i do think that we need some more mods on the site. doggy has moved on, coomer is really busy and has also moved on (so to speak although there is a big update coming soon. we will miss the yelli ), defgeph isn't on as much anymore and that leaves presure2 with a hefty load.
this is a free site people. why complain? you aren't paying anything to be on here and to get the info that is available. it doesn't lose anyone business so the comparison to a business was pointless. the less useless posts and threads cost coomer less money to keep the site running. so if you don't like the rules leave. we really don't care.
this site has helped me with my car in so many ways. i will still be here as long as i own my celi because i know that if i need help someone is willing to lend a hand.
that's the end of my ramble. you all can think what you want about me or anyone else on the site for that matters. i really don't care. i love my car and enjoy this site cuz i have met others that have that same love for theirs.

well said jeff!

on a side note... who actually bought those hid kits that were "sold"? no feedback left, no thanks for your business posts. the guy never posted what size the bulbs were after how many people asked.

edit: vvv haha here we go again vvv

This post has been edited by jason: Mar 12, 2008 - 11:59 PM

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well if there are rules we can not see that you uphold, how do you expect new members to be able to sell anything if they are legit?

"The main issue with this thread was, the member signed up that day and immediately started a For Sale thread. In our book thats not acceptable."

so when is it acceptable for them to start selling?

"There have been many instances that members have been scammed, ripped off, taken advantage of.This is unacceptable with the moderating team"

>

you are not responsible for the people that are scammed, neither is coomer. if they are scammed, thats their fault for trusting them. of course, the legit ones when they sell, thats how they build up rep. or does someone come straight in with reps already? i thought they all start off at 0 in the beginning and build up from there

Like I said above I am not and will not reveal any buying and selling rules. That is left to us, for member's security.

It may say in the rules that we are not responsable for member getting scammed. But that won't stop me from looking out for everyone on this site. I'm sorry, I care about this site and its member's to much. I never want to see anyone ripped off, I will do what ever I can to prevent it.

If you have a problem with the moderators protecting our members. Please, PM Coomer.

no i dont have a problem with you protecting the members.

but after all, like i asked, if they are new... how do they become legit sellers? if you wont let them sell becuase they are new.

i think what it means is that the more posts, and time teh person has spent on here will increase teh "rep" with or without the rep meter. trust is big but nto selling anything til a person has "x" number of posts so it is easier to trust that person.

>

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what i wanna know is whos next down on the chain....coomer is the almighty...but who did he sign first after that to look over the site?

why does it matter?

caus im curious...now is an appropriate time to ask i think....why does it matter to you?

>


Please read my original post guys.

The moderators all have equal abilities, and we'll leave it at that.

IMO this isn't a site that someone can just join up to sell stuff. That's what ebay, craigslist, ect are for. If someone does that here, it like they're trying to make a quick buck off us and I don't dig it.

It's tough enough buying things online from a forum when you don't even know the person your buying from, I'm glad the mods help in some way.

As for the guy selling the HID kits, google his aol name here he's spamming up plenty of forums selling these, do you guys want a bunch of spammers selling their crap here all time ?

I'd rather buy from members that I have seen post and to an extent know them.

>

anyone can reach a "x" number of posts. i do not find that hard to accomplish.

>

you obviously havent been here very long

Let me repeat myself. If you cannot act in a mature manner I do not want you in this thread.

Do not attack each other, do not bicker, leave you attitudes at the door. Have an educated discussion.


Thank you and good night,

DEF

but are they useful posts or useless posts? if someone is a regular on here and actually seems to know what they are doing i'm more willing to buy from them.
there is a deal in the b/s forum that i won't even consider cuz the guy is brand new. i would rather risk ebay cuz then atleast i have some assurance from paypal that i'm not going to get screwed.
when the only place a member ever is posting is in their FS ad i just don't trust them and that's what seems like happened in this situation.
do you see that guy complaining on here? did it affect you at all? if you were planning on buying from the guy the thread is still there. you can always send him a PM and get one. personally i didn't see any interest forming in the thread anyways. it was more of an annoyance that kept showing up at the top of the b/s forum.
sometimes people just want to complain

>

really? i notice you only been on here 4 months longer than i have

>
>

i am not bickering or attacking, i am simply giving an educated answer with no attitude

I have been a member of this site longer the most of the people that are in here posting. I personally know presure2 and defgeph who are on the moderating staff and have been members for a few years. On the other hand I also know 95st-celica who joined about a year ago and is voicing his concerns with the rest of the guys.

I would just like to say that I was a little disappointed in the "if you dont like it gtfo" comments. Im not sure who exactly said it in the last post, but thats not how we should be treating new members. Most of us who have been on here for a long time are used to how this site is run and are cool with it.... but if a few of the newer guys want to speak up about an issue they have, they should be allowed to, and their opinion (good/bad) should be taken into account. Without them, this community will never have a chance to grow.

I am also disappointed that Coomer is not an active member of this site. This place really needs an admin when these kinds of issues come up.

This post has been edited by lagos: Mar 13, 2008 - 12:59 AM

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i didnt mean to sound like an asshole..im just sayin...plus i have been here a lot longer then it says i joined...mabe a year or 2

Thumbs up for the moderating team, everynow and then we might cross the line, ive done it. But I also try to help, as far as to my knowledge. I am a member for almost a year now, and ever since i bought my celica i have not had a more fun car, and more pleasant time but spending time in the forums.

My wife tells me i have no other life other than 6gc.net. Not true, i have one of the most worderful jobs, and excellent family life. But im addicted to 6gc, cause im addicted to my car. Always looking for something new.

However, it is dissapointing to have to read 25k posts in order to find something useful. And see many members ask questions, nobody helping them, because everybody is more interesting in bashing, attacking, or posting remarks out of envy towards another. Opinion is a very powerful weapon, if you dont know how to use it, dont.

My opinion as simple as it is, can hurt somebody. If i know i will offend, then i shut myself. Im 31 years old with 8 years of post high school education. Life has taught me well, and so did my parents.

I love the site, and like I said before, free services do not last long, especially when you complain about it. remeber when coomer had problems with the site, couple months ago. I tought it got shut down, i was scared and so were many. So lets protect our >>>>free>> >> Investment.

Try to go get some free samples from SamsClub or Costo clubs, complain, then ask for more.. I dont think you will get a smile out of it.

yes its tru we prolly need more moderators, then again not for us to decide. Our contributions are based on requests, not demands.

We are help to help one another, not attack. I would like to meet the moderators and coomer one day, but im too far away, and in a few years prolly wont have time.

So, by being respectful and mindful of our cultural and age difference we can continue to grow.

There are other forums out there, yes, they let everybody do almost anything, yes. But thats it, they are others. We are
>>
>>6GC>>>>

This post has been edited by njccmd2002: Mar 13, 2008 - 1:13 AM

I think this whole thing is a bit over blown. I do feel Mods from time to time are hypocritical when saying a thread is pointless in the off topic section, then leaving one last equally frivolous and obnoxious remark then closing the thread. Or closing one thread then saying ridiculous things like "any copy cat threads, and the starter will be banned." I have said it b4 and will say it again the mods on this site think they r the messiah when is comes to 6gc. Often times they alienate new comers, break the rules the say they enforce, and down right insult people. I personally only come 2 this site to talk 2 a few people I genuinely like and sell a few extra parts. I enjoy this site, however, since the mods think they have the right to shut down the 5th amendment I dont visit as much as b4 or tell other 6gc owners I meet about this site. Its a shame that a few people with arrogant attitudes on here are actively destroying the community they say they help.

This post has been edited by SlickRick: Mar 13, 2008 - 2:06 AM

Just as lagos said, I too was disappointed to see some of the "stfu and gtfo" posts. I have been a member here for quite a long time now. Long enough to know that the main attraction to this site is not the information, but the kindness to new members. What I witnessed last night was a complete disregard to the feelings and opinions of new members.

I fully understand that the moderating team has been volunteering here for several years. Great appreciation for that. Closing threads and protecting the members of 6gc.net is your job. Just as writing tickets and protecting citizens are the duties of a police officer. There is no real nice way to do it, but some things must be done I understand. But as an authority figure, you should know that our members do look up to you. So rude comments before closing threads are unnecessary. Our members do learn from you and will only respond in such a way. Set a good example for our members and our members will become respectful. Years of being here is in no way an excuse for being disrespectful.

Threads like these come up every 6 months for a reason. And it is quite obviously as to why. People speak, and no one is heard. People speak, and once again, no one is heard. It seemed like the mentality of last night was "we are the way we are, we will not change". But isn't it the thoughts that has gotten the site to where it is today? Shouldn't we be constantly changing to meet the needs of our members? Remember way back when. Before we had the buyer reputation system, before we had the multimedia section, before we had high resolution photos as an option. What if we had just brushed those ideas off and told them to go to some other site which offers those things?

We need to hear the voices of new members. New or not, we are all humans, with ideas, with opinions. And they should be heard. We are all Celica enthusiasts yes. But we are so much more than just that. For each Celica, there is a driver, a person. We should always remember that.

I see the biggest complaint is a snide comment at the time of closure. In the future, we will try to be more careful not to hurt anyone's feeling when we close a thread.

I also see that you call us hypocrites. Of course we can be hypocritical at times. We are not the "gods" some members make us out to be. We are just a couple of guys with cars. Its human nature to make a mistake.



Thanks,
DEF

I havent been on this forum for long but I have been on forums before...even ones I have paid for and still continue to pay for... IMO this is almost better than the ones you do pay for...this is a reason why I still am here....i have been here 2-3 months and have already been beaten with the STFU and GTO stick...Although I do agree with some threads/posts being removed but I still scratch my head as to why my thread about the millitary was closed...i know this isnt about just that and I can leave that for another time...but i think that even if its a symbol or just a couple words from a mod to let us know someone is taking things out of hand I would agree with that...

Some ppl "report this post" because something someone has said bothers them...sometimes something that bothers someone doesnt bother the other person, but their thread gets closed due to that, but it was their fault...that may hard to understand it seems i talk in riddles at some times...and I agree as well with the snide comments...yes we may get upset with certain member but just maybe say closed if you have any Q's please PM me...thats fine isnt it? Im sure I can deal with that!!


In the end I know we cant complain that much because this is a free site and so far its okay...but when I read the rules it says respect the members....when did GTO and STFU become respectable appropriate manor to address others? And dont get my wrong I am NOT pointing fingers or naming names I am simply addressing my concerns as well...


I dont think we should be given 6million warnings, one is enough and if it seems the same person is causing all the trouble maybe a pm to personally warn them without the whole site to be able to see and if that doesnt work then BAM BAM with the ban hammer...

Maybe we jsut need a method

1- quick warn in the thread itself to straigten up
2- if consistant...PM the member
3- if this doesnt work BAN for a period of time or indefinately depending on the circumstances...


thats just my .02.......more like .10 but whos counting?



Feen

This post has been edited by speedfeen: Mar 13, 2008 - 9:14 AM