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I think thats generalizing things quite a bit, Kwanza. I don't think that too many of us with swaps or turbo just putt around town like a grandma. At least I don't anyway.

With my 3rd gen 3SGTE, as well as any Celica with a significant power upgrade , you can feel that the brakes are at the threshold of their effectiveness. I have IRotors D/S on all four corners with Hawk autocross compound brake pads, and they still just BARELY cut it as far as I'm concerned.

If you look at the balance of a swapped USDM Celica compared to a factory tuned configuration like a STi or Evo, the Celica needs a great suspension tune, sticky tires, and more powerful brakes to have the same sort of balance that those cars achieve. With comparable thrust to both, a swapped Celica just won't stop like it should when it only has single-piston calipers from the factory.


It awesome to see some answers regarding using the ST205 brakes....thats really good knowledge for anybody who wants to make their car really stop well.

Evo and STi are also significantly heavier

Celica = 2,580 lbs. curb weight
STi = 3,263lbs
evo = 3,263lbs

thus an added reason for bigger brakes + the image of the car and product partnership.

D/S rotors have proven to not be the best combination for performance.
Just slotted will give better performance IMO, more braking surface, sufficient venting.

a big brake upgrade won't prove anything on the street...its been proven. You just won't get the temperatures required to make it an effective setup.

Braided lines, Quality slotted rotors, good fluid (motul/ATE), good (hawk HPS, ferodo DS) and a set of good tires will get you more than sufficient road braking power.

most of all completely flushing brake fluid frequently (1 time a year, 2 years max) is something 99% of people over look when doing their braking system.

as well as with these older cars ensuring your master cylinder is in good condition i essential.

my opinions rest with Kwanza on this

This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 5, 2007 - 3:04 PM

Why would I need to race my car everyday to fit a bigger/stronger brakes? Indeed in normal (city) traffic on normal speeds the effect would be minimal. But I intend to go to the Ring next year and want to go to Circuit Zandvoort or TT Assen a few times a year. Maybe I will go on the track or not. But its a reassurance that you have enough stopping power and not having faded brakes after 1 lap.

And common, normal street driving. NOBODY who swaps there engine does it to drive at the 60-70mph mark. Everyone wants to try out the power and when you need to stop it would be good to have uprated brakes.

Still about the ST205 brakes, I have not fitted them on don't intend to do so untill I find a good company to make them fit. I dont trust my own life in my own (fabricated) hands when it comes to making caliper brackets

From my experiences, upgrading to a MUCH more capable set of brakes like the ST205 OEM setup couldn't be a bad thing at all. Single piston brakes simply don't stop you nearly as quick as a 4-piston when it counts, regardless of what brands you throw at them.

For street purposes, sure.....stock GT brakes with a stock 3S swap may suit you. But if you plan on pushing a Celica at all when its paired up with a powerful engine and great suspension, the weakest link in the setup with be the single pot OEM brakes and the limited surface area of the smaller rotors. My personal interests with my setup is for a daily-driven, fully track capable car with as few weaknesses as physically possible....not strictly grocery-getter status in which stock brakes would suit me just fine.

The STi and EVO are great examples of this type of configuration - a track ready car that excels in every aspect of performance, but still very streetable and reliable. They push more weight than a Celica, but the functionality of their brake setups, as well as the GT-Four's, for the purpose they were designed for is undeniable.


Slapping a grossly oversized brake kit for "bling" factor isn't what I'm endorsing. I'm endorsing the idea of using ST205 brake components to make a Celica stop the way it should when all other aspects of performance have been drasticly improved.


My opinions rest with myself (EDIT- and Kadett) on this one.

This post has been edited by Silver94CelicaOwner: Dec 5, 2007 - 4:08 PM

The 205 brakes do make a noticable different in stopping distance....even for street driving!! I drove my friend's car (205) and my swapped car and I can deff feel the different in the 205 brakes, you dont need to push the pedal as hard to stop. When I slammed the pedal the car literally "froze" (edit:testing was done at 60-100km, dry road with stock "brakes") .

I dont drive like grannies and certainly I dont intend to to the swap and tune the hell out of it just to cruise around at 60km. My daily driving to uni already required me to do 100km -120km so these brakes will help incase of a sudden stop.

It is deff not a "VISUAL modification". I just dont have cash just laying around to slap on these babies knowing they do jack-all for me, if that was the case Id rather buy one of those covers from eBay that cost 5 bucks.

People who think 204 brakes=205 brakes for any purpose then well..think again. The gain is not that awe-inpiring but its there, and gets better if you get slotted rotors, endless SS pads....etc.

This post has been edited by lubu: Dec 6, 2007 - 3:18 AM

One thurday noon with alot of unleaded fuel, brushes and spare time..
Pads seem to be near new, Tokico anyone???

I noticed one of the rubber that surrounds the piston is ripped, does anyone knows the part # for it??
....BTW try to avoid pull the rubber out, getting the snap-ring back around the piston is f**king ducking hard...

you shouldn't be using gas to clean or anywhere near a brake caliper....it eats all those seals

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That made me laugh. I imagined one of those cars from Looney Tunes.

I've been following this thread with interest. I find that while the brakes on my 6gc are good - I can come to a stop very quickly, I do rather have to stamp on them to make that happen. From what others have said, it sounds like the GT4 factory brakes offer a sharper, more positive feel.

Given that the GT4 is more powerful, but not hugely more powerful, than the GT with 3SGE engine, one would assume that the GT4 brakes on a GT with 3SGE would be a fairly good match (that is, getting the brakes up to temperature would be similar between the two). However, due to the differing suspensions, a straight swap is difficult. So to extrapolate, it would seem that any brakes that are close in specification to the GT4 brakes but are a more straight-forward fit would benefit the GT with 3SGE engine.

Now I know that a lot of people don't have 3SGE engines, but just bear with me for the moment as I don't want to complicate things too early.

So my questions are: are there any flaws in my logic; and if I wanted to upgrade my brakes to something close to the factory GT4 specification but choosing aftermarket parts that are more of a straightforward install than the actual GT4 parts - what are my options?

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Im asumming you mean "cant"??

With any other brake kits I would think that you'll run into problems like mounting, offsets...etc..etc.

But dont you wanna keep it all Toyota, more importantly celica?

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Actually. I did mean "can". I can stop quickly, but kinda have to stomp on the break - almost an emergency stop - to make that happen. I know it isn't comparing like with like, but on many small hot hatches the brakes are very "sensitive" - just pressing the brake lightly and you are pretty much thrown through the windscreen

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Not if that means getting custom brackets manufactured, parts skimmed by 1/4" and so on as some people have suggested. I think I just want a 'kit' that is easy to install that makes the brakes feel more responsive, less spongy.

This post has been edited by BloodyStupidDavey: Dec 7, 2007 - 8:29 AM

no i think his wording is correct.

what he is saying is that his car can stop fairly quickly but it takes more effort on his part to make it happen...ie pushing hard on the pedal.

Davey when was the last time you bleed your brakes?
do you have SS brake lines?
what type of pads are you using?
what rotors?