Past: V6 Swapped 6G Celica, E46 BMW M3, Jeep Wrangler TJCurrent: 850rwhp C6 Corvette Grandsport, Gen1 6.2L Ford Raptor
>
QUOTE(brianforster @ Jul 15, 2006 - 4:23 PM) [snapback]456576[/snapback]
>
that is EXACTLY what i want except with one more nipple for the PCV
Brian, I am curious why you say this. My understanding is that PCV vented to the atmosphere provides no downsides (other than having to clean the filter about once per year). Are there any other reasons you would want to vent this back into the intake? Anyone else is welcome to chime in here too.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
nice mod, how much does this kill the bov sound?
out of curiosity, what is that red thing behind your cruise control actuator, in front of your driver side strut tower
>
QUOTE(jcbass7 @ Jul 16, 2006 - 3:52 PM) [snapback]456897[/snapback]
>
nice mod, how much does this kill the bov sound?
out of curiosity, what is that red thing behind your cruise control actuator, in front of your driver side strut tower
1. completely
2. adjustable fuel pressure regulator
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jul 16, 2006 - 8:09 PM) [snapback]456891[/snapback]
>
>
QUOTE(brianforster @ Jul 15, 2006 - 4:23 PM) [snapback]456576[/snapback]
>
that is EXACTLY what i want except with one more nipple for the PCV
Brian, I am curious why you say this. My understanding is that PCV vented to the atmosphere provides no downsides (other than having to clean the filter about once per year). Are there any other reasons you would want to vent this back into the intake? Anyone else is welcome to chime in here too.
lagos yelled at me when i said i wanted to vent mine to atmosphere!
well that and he linked me to an mr2oc thread and another thread, and he also made a good point that if it aint broke dont fix it.
plus im pretty sure your engine bay gets dirtier with it vented
>
QUOTE(brianforster @ Jul 16, 2006 - 8:03 PM) [snapback]456998[/snapback]
>
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jul 16, 2006 - 8:09 PM) [snapback]456891[/snapback]
>
>
QUOTE(brianforster @ Jul 15, 2006 - 4:23 PM) [snapback]456576[/snapback]
>
that is EXACTLY what i want except with one more nipple for the PCV
Brian, I am curious why you say this. My understanding is that PCV vented to the atmosphere provides no downsides (other than having to clean the filter about once per year). Are there any other reasons you would want to vent this back into the intake? Anyone else is welcome to chime in here too.
lagos yelled at me when i said i wanted to vent mine to atmosphere!
well that and he linked me to an mr2oc thread and another thread, and he also made a good point that if it aint broke dont fix it.
plus im pretty sure your engine bay gets dirtier with it vented
My general understanding is that the only benefit of connecting that to the intake is emissions related. I am not an expert on it though.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jul 16, 2006 - 4:09 PM) [snapback]456891[/snapback]
>
>
QUOTE(brianforster @ Jul 15, 2006 - 4:23 PM) [snapback]456576[/snapback]
>
that is EXACTLY what i want except with one more nipple for the PCV
Brian, I am curious why you say this. My understanding is that PCV vented to the atmosphere provides no downsides (other than having to clean the filter about once per year). Are there any other reasons you would want to vent this back into the intake? Anyone else is welcome to chime in here too.
having the pcv system hooked up to the intake helps it work correctly, because the sucktion from the intake helps vent the pcv system correctly. here is some great info on how it all works.
http://autoshop101.com/forms/h63.pdf
This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 16, 2006 - 9:17 PM
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
I read the info and the link and have some questions. I also want to talk theory for a bit but I am not challenging your knowledge in this area.
We know the blowby is mostly a gas / air mixture. We also know the AFM is designed to measure how much air is coming through the intake so the proper amount of fuel can be injected. Adding the blowby back into the post AFM metered air should essentially make a "richer" (i.e. air that contains some fuel) prior to going into the engine. Why would a plugged PCV (i.e. open to atmosphere / not allowing blowby back into the intake) make you have a rich condition as the information in the link indicates?
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jul 16, 2006 - 7:50 PM) [snapback]457059[/snapback]
>Why would a plugged PCV (i.e. open to atmosphere / not allowing blowby back into the intake) make you have a rich condition as the information in the link indicates?
The extra air that is escaping to atmosphere has been metered by the AFM... Therefore, the car thinks there is more air in the cylinders than there actually is. Any AFM/MAF car should have a completely closed intake (including PCV). This problem dissapears on MAP based ECUs (ie, high horsepower cars, 3rd gen 3s-gte, Hondas, etc).
-Charlie
2003 Subaru WRX Wagon1989 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid1988 Camry Alltrac LE - BEAMS swap started
I don't understand. We are talking blowby here. The intake charge has already been ingested by the engine correct? The blowby is an air / fuel mixture.
I can tell you that my bogging, smoking, and backfires have all stopped despite my PCV vented to atmosphere.
From the information I have read tonight, it seems Art is correct that the rerouting back into the intake (or exhaust for that matter) serves as a vacuum source for the PCV to help the blowby exit. Another thing I don't understand is why a vacuum source is needed. I don't undertand why that air doesnt just escape without the vacuum source.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jul 17, 2006 - 12:36 AM) [snapback]457111[/snapback]
>
I don't understand. We are talking blowby here. The intake charge has already been ingested by the engine correct? The blowby is an air / fuel mixture.
I can tell you that my bogging, smoking, and backfires have all stopped despite my PCV vented to atmosphere.
From the information I have read tonight, it seems Art is correct that the rerouting back into the intake (or exhaust for that matter) serves as a vacuum source for the PCV to help the blowby exit. Another thing I don't understand is why a vacuum source is needed. I don't undertand why that air doesnt just escape without the vacuum source.
it does escape on its own... but the vac just assists it to let it do the job better and faster.
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
I am not an expert on these things but I would be willing to bet that the "performance difference" in these options amounts to "mice nuts". I think the PCV system is installed for emissions purposes and there is little to no difference in performance if its vented or recirculated back into the intake. Maybe we should race and find out
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jul 17, 2006 - 2:16 AM) [snapback]457140[/snapback]
>
I am not an expert on these things but I would be willing to bet that the "performance difference" in these options amounts to "mice nuts". I think the PCV system is installed for emissions purposes and there is little to no difference in performance if its vented or recirculated back into the intake. Maybe we should race and find out
yeah, this topic alwasy comes back to somone trying to justify their cool breather filter.
This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 17, 2006 - 1:29 AM
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
>
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 17, 2006 - 1:23 AM) [snapback]457143[/snapback]
>
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jul 17, 2006 - 2:16 AM) [snapback]457140[/snapback]
>
I am not an expert on these things but I would be willing to bet that the "performance difference" in these options amounts to "mice nuts". I think the PCV system is installed for emissions purposes and there is little to no difference in performance if its vented or recirculated back into the intake. Maybe we should race and find out
yeah, this topic alwasy comes back to somone trying to justify their cool breather filter.
LOL. You ought to know me better than that. Show me some proof that it helps performance then maybe I will change my mind.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
whats the benefit of venting it?
read the first two paragraphs about how those gases are bad for your engine. that alone would make me want to have mine hooked up the right way.
This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 17, 2006 - 1:28 AM
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
>
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 17, 2006 - 1:28 AM) [snapback]457146[/snapback]
>
whats the benefit of venting it?
read the first two paragraphs about how those gases are bad for your engine. that alone would make me want to have mine hooked up the right way.
The PCV system needs a vent. The only benefit over a rerouted line is cleaning up the engine bay and possibly avoiding a clog in the system (assuming that the filter is kept clean).
As for the first two paragraphs, keep in mind that the potential damage occurs if the blowby is not released - not if it isn't routed into the intake path.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
One other big advantage to the filter - less oil in your intake tract and going into your turbo.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jul 17, 2006 - 2:36 AM) [snapback]457160[/snapback]
>
One other big advantage to the filter - less oil in your intake tract and going into your turbo.
Yea despite factory catch can i still need to clean my intercooler at least twice a year
QUOTE(tufy @ Jul 19, 2006 - 7:40 AM) [snapback]458074[/snapback]i dont drive fast, i just fly low
this is one of those things people always debate about, no matter what the facts are.
ive had mine conected the factory way and never saw any negative issues with it. my ic piping and intercooler stay clean. so i dont know.
This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 17, 2006 - 2:01 PM
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
>
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 17, 2006 - 2:00 PM) [snapback]457292[/snapback]
>
this is one of those things people always debate about, no matter what the facts are.
I don't know about you but I wouldn't debate something "no matter what the facts are". I think the facts (at least to any performance or reliability differences) are not entirely clear here.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jul 17, 2006 - 3:22 PM) [snapback]457306[/snapback]
>
>
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 17, 2006 - 2:00 PM) [snapback]457292[/snapback]
>
this is one of those things people always debate about, no matter what the facts are.
I don't know about you but I wouldn't debate something "no matter what the facts are". I think the facts (at least to any performance or reliability differences) are not entirely clear here.
well. .. i didnt really mean it like that. what i ment was that you can show me some proof...but ill argue my point and vice versa. its one of those things that people never agree on.
15PSI - 30MPG - Megasquirt Tuned
>
QUOTE(jgreening @ Jul 16, 2006 - 9:36 PM) [snapback]457111[/snapback]
>
I don't understand. We are talking blowby here. The intake charge has already been ingested by the engine correct? The blowby is an air / fuel mixture.
I can tell you that my bogging, smoking, and backfires have all stopped despite my PCV vented to atmosphere.
From the information I have read tonight, it seems Art is correct that the rerouting back into the intake (or exhaust for that matter) serves as a vacuum source for the PCV to help the blowby exit. Another thing I don't understand is why a vacuum source is needed. I don't undertand why that air doesnt just escape without the vacuum source.
The BOV is much more important that the PCV when it comes to how the car runs.
As a quick note, if you route the PCV to the exhaust, this only works on N/A cars with a fast-acting one way valve inline. The negative half of each exhaust pulse creates the vacuum. Turbo cars generally have pressurized exhaust (pre-turbo) or non-pulsing exhaust (post turbo) and thus cannot use that method.
The more vacuum there is in the crankcase, the better. The pistons actually have somewhat significant pumping losses moving the air around inside the motor. Big V8 drag cars often have specific vacuum pumps to keep the crankcase at a reasonable vacuum (and gain 10s of HP from it).
-Charlie
2003 Subaru WRX Wagon1989 Camry Alltrac LE 3S-GTE - SV25/ST205 hybrid1988 Camry Alltrac LE - BEAMS swap started
Here's some good information with testing.
PCV ThreadI have only read the initial post so far but the results were interesting.
QUOTE(lagos @ Jul 10, 2006 - 1:55 PM) [snapback]454118[/snapback]i know your trying to do the right thing for your motor, but this is one of those times where you should just trust the guys who have had their swaps for a while and have done a ton of research into this.
i cant help but want to play with your turbo... hehe im looking into a gt30r but its just really expensive. i mean i can afford it but the cheapest i found one was almost 1000$ new. ouchie
94' ST Coupe - 5sfe Motor swap and brake swap.
