there are so many pros and cons to both the 3sge and 5sfte. although the 3sge is cheaper, im not sure i have the mechanical ability to swap the engine successfully although it would probably be more reliable than the turbo setup. however, the 5sfte makes more power, i can put it together, BUT it also costs more and is less reliable. the 3sge is also a tough motor to find. what do you guys think?

edit: i have a 5th gen, so if anything id prob. be swapping a 2nd gen 3sge

This post has been edited by ummmx2: Oct 13, 2005 - 11:34 PM

the major thing i would worry about the 3sGE engine is that the wiring info is very hard to find and you would probably be all alone in trying to make it work. ...other then that, go for it.

why not a gte its just as much as a ge

-lagos+Oct 14, 2005 - 12:36 AM

I'm not real up on how the stand alones work, but could you just use it instead? Or do you need the wiring to know were to hook stuff up?

EDIT: I vote for 3sge.

This post has been edited by Bigmeanbulldog55: Oct 14, 2005 - 12:14 AM

you still need some wiring skills to hook up a stand alone ecu .... not to mention its expensive and you have to pay someone to tune it correctly for you after the install.

-lagos+Oct 14, 2005 - 1:35 AM

I'll try to learn as much as I can now. I've never done any wirering. The more I learn, the easier that bridge will be to cross when I get there. I can't wate to have money. If I keep the Celica, it will be one of the best on here. Should be the best in my opinion, only do to personallisation.

What about those guys who have 3sge's in there cars? Were do they get the wiring info? And would it be that hard to just get a clip? I've never seen any 3sge Celica clips though. Probably easier to go to with the 3sgte over the others unless your really ready to work. I don't know that much about mods, but I feel confident I could do a 3sgte with all the help there is out there. And I'd always go for a 3sgte over a 5sfte. It takes a good bit of money and effort to get the 5sfte to the same level as the stock 3sgte. 3sgte has a lot of potential too. If you want to be cheap, go for the 5sfte. No one is ever happy with this option though, they all want the 3sgte. Just what is seems like from my experiances on here.

actually the 2nd gen 3sge is MUCH cheaper than all of the other options, especially since you dont need a clip. ive seen the complete wiring harness, motor, ecu, etc. everything needed for about $500. btw, a stock 5sfte is about up to par with the stock 3sgte, maybe a little stronger. however the 3sgte is about 2x the 5sfte, so i really dont know.

What exactly is the 2nd gen 3sge? Did it come in an older Celica? I'd like to get ahold of one of these if I could find that deal. I hate the Celica's lack of hgh rpm power. My last car peaked at about 7700. I miss it so much.

-ummmx2+Oct 14, 2005 - 8:50 PM


you never NEED a clip, but its a smart thing to get one.

2nd gen 3sge is def not a beams so its prob not worth the hassle

-MonsterBOX+Oct 15, 2005 - 1:01 PM

The Beams is the only one with any hp? How come all those guys over in England are putting them in there race cars? That many people can't have Beams can they?

-MonsterBOX+Oct 15, 2005 - 12:01 PM



n00b! The 2nd 3S-GE is definitely worth it, especially on a 5th gen Celica. For one thing, wiring up a 2nd gen 3S-GE is going to be easier than wiring a BEAMS onto a 5th gen. Some of you guys need to get over the idea that BEAMS is the only engine worth getting. >>

2nd gen 3sge came in the 5th gen celica overseas. i think its like 160 or so hp. but i dont know if the power gain is even worth the hassle. i would save up for a 3sgte..but the downtime would be FOREVER, plus the fact that im not too knowledgeable at swapping so..

So what if it only has 160hp? A stock B16 has something like that doesn't it, and this is/was most Honda guys dreams. The 5sfe and 7afe don't have potential. It seems to me that any 3sge would have better potential for power.

Its true, but u should at least get a complete swap uncut or the clip. The only thing with the clip is what to do with the leftovers. A 3sge is less to maintain, Real type DOHC and powerful. I go with NA cause I don't know sqat about turbos. Any more info and my mind might explode.

ok well imho dont get a 3sge unless its a beams...only gonna be like a 30-40 hp gain over ur 5sfe...i dont think the wiring hassle it worth 30-40hp with an engine that doesnt have much more potential....if ur gonna swap put in a 3sgte so at least you have some aftermarket turbo potential and over 200hp

if your going 3s-ge m8 its ether the rev 3 172-177bhp or the beams you want , the beams would be expensive compaired to teh normal rev 3

theres a guy over at www.celica-club.co.uk in teh middle of dropping a rev 3 in his gen 5 at the moment

http://www.celica-club.co.uk/cgibin/phpbb2...pic.php?t=32346

2nd gen 3SGE is great... but the 3rd gen can be had for relatively the same price. The 3rd gen has a superior head and can wear just about any size cams without much bother to the valvetrain (upgraded springs for the very high lift cams)... One thing I HATE about the 2nd and 3rd gen 3SGE's... that bloody ACIS intake manifold. Hello ITB's...

IMO... both the 2nd and 3rd gen 3SGE's are well worth the investment. The BEAMS is expensive, rare, and overrated IMO (basically the same thing as the older ones. The only MAJOR differences are, different intake manifold and VVTi. Power difference comes mostly from cams and its increased compression over the older models [10:1 for 2nd, 10:5 for 3rd, and 11:1 for redtop BEAMS if I remember correctly])... so price-wise, time-wise... 2nd or 3rd gen beats it easily. We should all just admit... the BEAMS's shiny red valvecover is the best selling point about that motor... ;]

having owned a Celica for the last 4 years with the rev 3 3s-ge i can say the worst thing about is its severe lack of low down torque , below 3k its just pants (rubbish), you know how every car has 0-60 times and along side this you see the 50 to 70mph in 5th gear times well i tested mines last week and got 12.2 seconds , again that's pants as most new tdi's these days can do it in 8-9 seconds , don't get me wrong its a good strong engine but you have to make it work hard to get it going

Kev

This post has been edited by kevstir: Oct 17, 2005 - 4:06 AM

but wouldnt the 2nd gen 3sge be a lot easier to wire up to my 5th gen than the 3rd gen. and there is potential for the 5sfe if you turbo it. pressure2's results prove that.

-Bigmeanbulldog55+Oct 14, 2005 - 9:02 PM

It came in a hand full of cars.. overseas though.


-MonsterBOX+Oct 15, 2005 - 12:01 PM

Its worth the hassle, if you Want a budget swap. By that I mean your cutting a lot of extra stuff out from say the 3s-gte. All the extra turbo crap. But less power.

-Kwanza26+Oct 17, 2005 - 12:19 AM


Good point, Also is there a way to do Itb's and make it worth while.

The biggest thign about it is, No one has done it. My guess its going to be very simlar to the 3s-gte. but id guess also be easier. But all guesses. I have One.. Sitting my garage. Planned on doing it, then ran out of money, then got new job and ran out of time.

All this talk makes me want to try an swap it in again. Maybe i can get a winter beater and this will be my new winter project..

IMHO. This swap would be awsome, rare and for the most part reliable. It wouldnt be a drag car by any means. It would be more of an auto X car. With the wieght it being rated at 168-174hp.. in a 2500 lb car.. would still be quick and fun.

-ummmx2+Oct 17, 2005 - 12:35 PM

Yup, because the 2nd gen 3S-GE came in 5th gen Celica's and 3rd gen 3S-GE's came in 6th gen Celica's.

-kevstir+Oct 17, 2005 - 3:46 AM

Part of the reason why it takes so long is because of the transmission. It has a long final drive. Swap it with a USDM S54 and it should rev quicker.

If i could i would m8 but theres no way im importing a usdm gearbox to Scotland lol, it would be cheaper to get my gearbox rebuilt with a lower final drive lol , will just hold of for a GT4 >>